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I tend not to go against the grain but I'm not fond of these cameras either.

A month ago I was driving home kinda late from a movie on the corner of woodville road near the BP. I waited at the stop light, had a green turn arrow and made my turn about 15mph and was flashed.

Freaked me out, like I was some kind of criminal when I did nothing wrong. Granted I haven't received any ticket in the mail it's still a big unnerving.

My girlfriend thinks I made the turn a little wide and it must have though I ran the red light going straight instead of the turn which I took. Regardless :(

posted by jshriver on Apr 01, 2008 at 09:38:22 am     #

Just as Ohio will if its contested

Unfortunately they have already been challenged in Ohio. First the Ohio House and Senate passed a resolution banning red-light cameras, but in one last attempt to give the finger to the state the former governor vetoed it. Secondly, a few months ago the Ohio Supreme Court heard arguments over red-light cameras and ruled them as constitutional.

posted by HeyHey on Apr 01, 2008 at 11:06:42 am     #

Maybe trying roundabouts, 50km/h speed limit, banning automatic transmissions and power steering (driving should require a little skill), banning pickups and SUVs without mud and major body damage (aka chick cars with glorified booster seats)... or perhaps I'm being a bit facetious.

This whole site might be of interest, especially this article:

http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras/5-proven-ways-to-stop-red-light-running/

5 Proven Ways To Stop Red-Light Running
November 5th, 2007 Posted in Helpful Information, Red-Light Cameras

While most cities choose to take the easy way out and install red-light ticket cameras to profit from this problem (without solving it), there are several proven ways for communities to stop red-light running at their intersections.

1) Increase the yellow-light time
This is an easy way to reduce red-light violations. It has been effective from Virginia to California in preventing accidents and saving lives.

* A study by researchers at the Texas Transportation Institute illustrates the positive safety impact of even a modestly longer yellow light.
* The Virginia Department of Transportation noted a significant decrease in violations at an intersection in Fairfax County when the yellow light was lengthened by 1.5 seconds.
* Critics of longer yellow lights claim there is no long-term benefit because the public will grow accustomed to the longer lights, but research shows this is not the case.

2) Add an all-red clearance interval
A yellow light allows drivers who cannot safely stop to pass through the intersection before the light turns red. Occasionally, even safe and attentive drivers may misjudge the time it takes to make it completely through an intersection.

Adding an all-red clearance interval (a brief period where the lights in all directions are red) after the yellow-light phase reduces unnecessary accidents. AAA of Michigan and the city of Detroit partnered to make intersections safer and they found an all-red clearance interval to be effective.

3) Make traffic lights more visible
There are a number of reasons motorists might have difficulty seeing traffic lights at intersections. Making traffic lights more visible decreases red-light violations and intersection accidents. Here are three simple things that can be done to help all motorists see traffic lights better:

* Make the lights bigger. With AAA of Michigan’s help, Detroit installed several new lights that were 50 percent larger. This small change helped to decrease both accidents and injuries at problem intersections.
* Add metal backers to lights. This is especially important for lights that face either east or west and can be easily affected by glare from the sun during certain parts of the day.
* Remove any other obstructions. If an intersection has above average red-light violations or accidents, transportation officials should make sure that no signs, trees, transit stops, or buildings obstruct motorists’ view of the traffic lights.

4) Improve intersections for motorists
Anything about an intersection that confuses or frustrates motorists increases red-light violations. Communities can do all of the following to make intersections safer:

* Repaint lane markings at intersections, especially turn lane markings. This alone had a major impact in the Detroit trial project mentioned above.
* Improve signage. Signs should clearly indicate that a signal is ahead and which lane(s), if any, are for turns only.
* Add traffic lights at certain intersections, especially those that rely on only one light suspended in the air to direct all traffic.
* Build new turn lanes, especially on roads where development has added a significant amount of new traffic volume.
* Provide advance warning lights at high-speed intersections to notify motorists of pending light changes.

5) Retime Traffic Signals
Engineers can adjust the timing of traffic lights to reduce the number of red lights a driver encounters. This process of signal optimization reduces congestion, travel time, gas consumption, and driver frustration. It also helps to reduce red-light violations.

An informational report from the Institute for Transportation Engineers concluded that the process has a benefit to cost ratio of 40:1. Another study in Oakland County, Michigan showed that retiming the traffic signals had a benefit-cost ratio of 175:1 and 55:1 respectively for each of the two phases of the project.

posted by charlatan on Apr 01, 2008 at 11:44:34 am     #

Actually, I believe the minimum yellow light time is closer to 4 seconds.

I read a story last week, I forget what statem but they were forced to pay back hundreds of fines because they had the yellow light set too short.

Oh, but it's all about safety, not profit...yeah, OK.

posted by JeepMaker on Apr 01, 2008 at 03:03:32 pm     #

"Maybe trying roundabouts ..."

A few roundabouts are planned for Toledo by TMACOG, according to their On the Move 2007-2035 Transportation Plan from February 2007.

Roundabouts are planned for the following intersections:

• Douglas/Laskey/Tremainsville
• Detroit/Telegraph/Laskey
• Heatherdowns/Garden Rd.

Although not listed in the projects file, it was mentioned at the meeting that a roundabout is planned in 2008 for the Nebraska/King intersection, unless I heard that wrong.

• Roundabouts greatly reduce head-on and t-bone collisions, which reduces the number of serious injuries. The crashes that do occur are mostly side-swipes.

Roundabouts move traffic safely through an intersection because of:

• Slower speeds
• Fewer conflict points
• Easier decision-making

Studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety show that roundabouts provide a:

• 90% reduction in fatal crashes
• 76% reduction in injury crashes
• 30-40% reduction in pedestrian crashes
• 10% reduction in bicycle crashes

posted by jr on Apr 01, 2008 at 04:50:06 pm     #

Nice. I didn't know they were so effective at keeping emergency rooms quiet.

You'd think people would want them everywhere, even in the country where high speed crashes seem to wipe out entire families.

posted by charlatan on Apr 01, 2008 at 08:40:10 pm     #

I can't imagine a roundabout at the Douglas/ Laskey/ Tremainsville intersection. I'll avoid that like the plague.

posted by Postal on Apr 01, 2008 at 10:14:18 pm     #

Make the legal driving age 21 or make gas more expensive for anyone under 21...

posted by mudhen519 on Apr 01, 2008 at 11:32:01 pm     #

The key with roundabouts is to slow down, which I realize would be a system shock to many Toledo drivers. That's why I'm opposed to the city filling in the potholes. The potholes or craters are natural speed bumps that force the nutjobs to drive only 20 miles over the speed limit.

Anyway, from my notes :

At the meeting, a video was shown of the roundabout in Howard, Wisconsin, but I don't see this video on the TMACOG Web site, but you can view an excerpt of the video on the Wisconsin Department of Transportation Web site.

Playing time: 2:08

• Video clip - high bandwidth (9 MB, WMV file)
• Video clip - low bandwidth (2 MB, WMV file)
• Transcript
  

Drivers in a roundabout

• Slow down
• Watch for traffic signs
• Move into the correct lane for the direction you want to travel
• Yield to pedestrians and bicyclists as you enter and exit the roundabout
• Look to the left for traffic
• Enter when it is safe
• Keep your speed low within the roundabout
• Exit carefully to your destination

Back in January, I entered a somewhat busy but smallish roundabout in a Cleveland suburb on a Saturday afternoon. I was not expecting it, so I was a little surprised when I came upon it. But I entered and exited that roundabout a couple of times for fun and to get a feel for it, and it was fine. It's different. But once accustomed to the roundabout concept, I think we'd prefer it over "normal" intersections.

Going slow through a roundabout is still better than sitting through multiple light changing sequences at a busy intersection and having to watch out for the boobs running obvious red lights.

The roundabouts seem to require more space. I wonder if that's true.

A small, quiet roundabout exists in a residential area in West Toledo between Sylvania and Laskey. If you want to practice driving in a roundabout, and you have nothing else going on in your life, get a bunch of your friends to go nuts in this thing. It's located along Overland Pkwy just south of Eleanor Ave and east of Jackman and west of Lewis. Three roads meet. No stop signs exist. Traffic flows counterclockwise.

posted by jr on Apr 01, 2008 at 11:43:57 pm     #

One of the few things I remember from a class in statistics: Liars figure and figures lie. Let's see what we've got.

Roundabouts greatly reduce head-on and t-bone collisions, which reduces the number of serious injuries. The crashes that do occur are mostly side-swipes.

No surprise here, and in fact this is a non-sentence constructed to promote roundabouts versus intersections. Given the design – traffic driving in a circle – it's little wonder that head on collisions are eliminated, as are t-bone accidents.

Roundabouts move traffic safely through an intersection because of:

* Slower speeds
* Fewer conflict points
* Easier decision-making

That last statement just isn't true. Try changing lanes in a roundabout in heavy to moderate traffic and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you're in the inside lane of a two lane roundabout, traffic is going to be in your blind spot. Shifting to the right is extremely dangerous for that reason, and also because of the people entering the roundabout in the outside lane, which is where you need to be to get off.

Studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety show that roundabouts provide a:

* 90% reduction in fatal crashes
* 76% reduction in injury crashes
* 30-40% reduction in pedestrian crashes
* 10% reduction in bicycle crashes

Fatal and injury crashes are reduced, but do non-fatal, non-injury crashes increase? Moreover, pedestrian and bicycle traffic tends to stay away from roundabouts as a matter of self-preservation.

We have several roundabouts here in Mad City, and they will provide you with a truly frightening experience. Other drivers cut in front of you when they try and enter the roundabout, and drivers on the inside can run you right off the road when they decide to exit.

Roundabouts? No thanks. Just keep them away from me. I'm fine stopping for red lights, stopping for yellow lights, and letting the red light camera pass out tickets to scofflaws.

posted by madjack on Apr 02, 2008 at 07:31:11 pm     #

"Make the legal driving age 21 or make gas more expensive for anyone under 21..."

Oh ageism, the most common and accepted form of bigotry.
....
There's roundabouts in Buffalo's suburbs. They are like um so SCARY OMG!!! I took it one going 30 in my Prius and my gun rack didn't even move. Yawn!

I agree with madjack. Scientific comutation and studies are pure bullshit. I'll stick to my gut feelings, so I know I'm always right. And scene.

posted by charlatan on Apr 03, 2008 at 02:08:54 am     #

I really didn't realize "roundabouts" had such a significant and positive influence on traffic flow! I know I've driven through the Angola Ind. The one in the center of Angola many many times and probably half with a 53'semi tractor Tailor and I've "Never", had a problem,
"But you have to watch what your doing"! not like the single brain celled amoeba's in Toledo, who monopolize the left lane while running their damned mouth on their cell phone's

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 03, 2008 at 11:24:16 am     #

From my notes taken at a March 2007 TMACOG presentation :

Although not listed in the projects file, it was mentioned at the meeting that a roundabout is planned in 2008 for the Nebraska/King intersection, unless I heard that wrong.

Apr 7, 2008 Toledo Blade : Roundabout mulled in Springfield Township

The engineer’s office plans to build the roundabout at King Road and Nebraska Avenue in Springfield Township.

Though they may look daunting to upcoming drivers, roundabouts are easier, more environmentally friendly, and have fewer accidents than regular four-way intersections, according to Keith Earley, the Lucas County engineer. State and federal funds would pay for about $600,000 of the project’s $713,246 costs, while the engineer’s funds could pay for the rest, Mr. Earley said.

The engineer’s office held a public hearing Tuesday to discuss the proposal with nearby residents, and county commissioners plan to vote on it during their April 15 meeting. While the rural, lightly populated district may not seem like an area with heavy traffic, Mr. Earley said his office expects traffic and development to follow a sewer installation project with the county’s sanitary engineer in the same area.

The proposed plans, drawn up by a consultant after the Lucas County commissioners approved a study in 2006, call for a counterclockwise circulation around a grassy “Center Island,” with curbs to accommodate large trucks or buses. Signs would indicate to drivers that a roundabout is approaching, and each street would have a yield sign instead of a stop sign at the intersection.

posted by jr on Apr 10, 2008 at 05:45:39 pm     #

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