Toledo Talk

93 year old woman assaulted at Krogers on Monroe Street

Kroger on Monroe Street was our primary shopping location for years. Over the last 5 years or more it has steadily declined. I just read where a 93 year old woman was assaulted by two girls attempting to steal her purse last Sunday night (below).

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2013/09/23/Toledo-police-look-for-suspects-in-assault-on-woman-93.html

There have been times where my wife and I still have to go to Kroger. I can't tell you how often we have witnessed behavior in the parking lot that just makes us shake our heads.... women screaming F'bombs at their infants, men "if they can be called that" calling their girlfriend Bit**, or people arguing on the phone like they are on the Jerry Springer show.

In fairness I can't blame Kroger for the obscenities and behavior of their shoppers but they must address the increased safety concerns at their location! They should also be concerned about how trashy they allow the parking lot to become. There was so much debris and filth in the lot one night that I asked for a manager hoping to walk out to the lot with them but they had already gone home for the night (presumably walking right through the debris)

93 Year old woman being dragged... I'm tempted to also start a separate thread on just how lame the Government has been concerning the increasing drug epidemic as they place more emphasis on bullying and nutrition...

created by Danneskjold on Oct 04, 2013 at 11:47:35 am     Comments: 78

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Comments ... #

Not everyone who robs someone else is on drugs. Not having any money for the basics is a major factor in a lot of people's lives laterly. A 93 yr old woman is a prime target no matter what you need the money for. People really jump to conclusions on very little info these days.

posted by nana on Oct 04, 2013 at 12:24:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

In any event, the store should act to make sure their customers are safe on their property. The trash in the parking lot is the first hint that Krogers is disinterested in the situation. Sadly, the old woman might have limited shopping options.

Krogers needs to tend to this situation.

posted by jimavolt on Oct 04, 2013 at 12:34:59 pm     #  

Nana, with all due respect I would strongly suggest you speak to people such as policeman or women concerning the driving factors of crime in this area. No disrespect intended - but those conversations should prove enlightening.

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 04, 2013 at 12:38:18 pm     #   3 people liked this

I know people who live near that Kroger, but refuse to shop there. If they need something from Kroger, they head up to the one at Secor and Sterns.

In general, if a grocery store needs to hire off duty cops as security to keep customers in line, I won't do my shoping there. Last time I stopped into that Kroger for a quick trip, sure enough there were officers at the door.

posted by mom2 on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:01:45 pm     #  

Sigh.

The illegal drugs are less of a problem than is the high price of illegal drugs, which sends addicts out to steal. Decriminalize and/or legalize illegal drugs and you will see prices fall, and addicts will not be driven to steal to feed their habits.

We have been doing the opposite for decades (incarceration / interdiction) and all we have managed to do is force upward the prices of street drugs. Illegal drug consumption levels have not fallen, nor have addiction-related crimes like theft and robbery, and we have only been "successful" at locking up millions of Americans:

Note to any clueless readers: I am not justifying the vicious attack on an old woman, and I would be the first to advocate severe punishment for someone who would victimize a frail old person. I am pointing out that if we were serious about reducing addicition-related crime, we would eliminate the policies that artificially inflate drug prices (and thus escalate addiction-related crimes).

Oh, and keep in mind it is a helluva lot cheaper to send someone to detox that to house the same person in prison: Heck: you could probably send someone to detox four times a year for less than the cost of a year in prison.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:12:49 pm     #   9 people liked this

mom2 posted at 02:01:45 PM on Oct 04, 2013:

I know people who live near that Kroger, but refuse to shop there. If they need something from Kroger, they head up to the one at Secor and Sterns.

In general, if a grocery store needs to hire off duty cops as security to keep customers in line, I won't do my shoping there. Last time I stopped into that Kroger for a quick trip, sure enough there were officers at the door.

Take Southland off of your list. :)

posted by justread on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:15:45 pm     #  

Oh, and I shop that Kroger's regularly, and have never once felt unsafe. As far as the vulgarity, this is more generational than locational. I see dysfunctional families and crude whackjobs at any large destination where the general public is found.

If you want to avoid the lowest of the low-lifes, shop in the early dayparts. The craziness begins to escalate after 4:00 pm or so at grocery stores, and there is nothing to compare with the loons who come out after 10:00 pm at Kroger.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:16:02 pm     #  

Mike, the problem is addictive drugs don't follow the usual economic laws. Legalization won't fix this problem. First, there's no evidence that legalization will lower prices because there is no price point in which the addict won't attempt to meet. We're not talking about movie tickets here where, if the price is too high the consumer will just go without. We're talking about a product that is the focus of all thought for the consumer.

Regardless though, even lower prices won't fix the problem when the buyer has little to no money. Heck, in many cases it could exacerbate the problem. If heroin costs $10 right now for a good dose, a junkie will pay $10. If you legalize it and lower the price to $5, you know what the junkie will do with his $10? He'll buy two doses. He isn't going to turn around and spend the other $5 on groceries or a 401k. What's more, at the end of the day he still has to come up with that $5 for a vial. Lowering the price doesn't increase his available money. That means he'll still be out stealing, and he won't let anyone stand in his way.

The addiction beast will be fed before all other considerations in the addict's life. If that means stealing copper pipe out of an abandoned house he'll do that. If that means beating up a 93 year old woman and stealing her Social Security check, he'll do that. If it means cutting off his own arm and giving it to his dealer, he'll do that. McCrack and McHeroin won't fix the problem of irrational persistant demand.

posted by taliesin52 on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:51:30 pm     #   1 person liked this

From HistoryMike: Oh, and I shop that Kroger's regularly, and have never once felt unsafe.

Really. Could your lack of feelings have anything to do with your size, gender or attitude?

For those of you who have never met him, think about this: HistoryMike is six foot four inches, athletically fit with the fitness of an amateur triathlete who is branching out into MMA. He is male, and the second and third thing the waitress at AMango stared at were his chow hooks and daisy crushers. HistoryMike often stops for groceries just after perusing a three inch thick stack of student essays from his 200 level history class, "World War II - The Role of Cultural and Linguistic Differences as Applied to Causation". A typical paragraph goes something like this:

Well Like when the germans bombed like pearl harbor and stuff and a lot of stuff got like blown up and stuff. And like thats when it started sort of only the jappanneez dint speak any english so like the us US unided states Unided Statz like see we dint no they were pissed off. like at us an stuff.

This pushes the professor into frustration as his mind manages to override his body's basic desire to choke the living shit out of several students who desperately need it, then continue with whatever lame brain high school administrators there are who actually allowed this group to graduate. Admission councilors may make the list as well.

So that's what's on his mind as he shops and walks the parking lot. Now, hold that image...

HistoryMike, do you honestly think anyone is going to screw around with you as you shop?

posted by madjack on Oct 04, 2013 at 01:58:53 pm     #  

Hmm... lower the price of drugs, increase demand... more addicts.... more counseling services... more desperate spouses who's husband or wife no longer cares about anything other then their fix (regardless of the price)... Babies in utero affected by addict parents using during pregnancy (Oh, I forgot, that never happens...) More babies who's parents will not be taking care of them but prepping their needles....

I want people who use drugs: watching my children, driving my taxi, doing electrical work on my home, operating on me, assisting a doctor, preparing my food at restaurants.. operating any kind of machinery... Ooooopsssss - NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Yes... America needs more drugs!
"Oh.. but what about alcohol?" - Pot's a lot better than alcohol... "yawn"

What can an addict do regardless of the price of smack? Sit on their couch watching Bugs Bunny and collecting benefits - that's it!

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 04, 2013 at 02:15:03 pm     #  

Danneskjold: the opposite is more likely to happen - when a substance gets banned, initially there is a drop-off, but usage levels climb and sometimes surpass earlier usage levels prior to the outlawing of the substance.

Consider the effects of Prohibition as outlined in this excellent study by the Cato Institute (I might add this organization is a long ways from being a liberal bastion). Here is an excerpt from the abstract:

Although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Alcohol became more dangerous to consume; crime increased and became “organized”; the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant. No measurable gains were made in productivity or reduced absenteeism. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many drinkers to switch to opium, marijuana, patent medicines, cocaine, and other dangerous substances that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Prohibition.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 02:38:29 pm     #   5 people liked this

@ Madjack: I shop at Secor/Monroe Kroger, too. I am not male, young, or large. And I don't feel unsafe there, either.

I like a store that's not homogeneous. Feels like the real world, you know?

posted by luvtoledo on Oct 04, 2013 at 02:42:05 pm     #   1 person liked this

And Danneskjold: the existing efforts under the umbrella of the War on Drugs have not stopped addicts from "watching my children, driving my taxi, doing electrical work on my home, operating on me, assisting a doctor, preparing my food at restaurants.. operating any kind of machinery."

If anything, the ramped-up interdiction and incarceration has increased the likelihood that your life is being affected by addiction.

Lowering price will not increase demand or the number of addicts: people do not choose to get high because drugs (or booze, or spray paint, or any other intoxicant) are inexpensive. They choose to get high because they have significant problems in their lives that they believe drugs (or booze, or spray paint, or any other intoxicant) will ameliorate or fix.

If I put a pound of free cocaine on your front porch, would you plow your face into the bag and Hoover it up? I assume the answer is "no," and that is because you are smart enough to know that the shit could kill you, or at least really screw up your life.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 02:44:47 pm     #   7 people liked this

Madjack: yes, I am a big dude, and that deters some would-be crooks, but the Kroger on Secor/Monroe does not set off the warning bells for me the way it might if, say, I was driving through a rough neighborhood on a summer evening, or if a group of unknown persons was walking directly at me in the dark.

By contrast, I see a greater number of sketchier-looking people hanging around the Kroger at Jackman/Laskey or the BP at Jackman/Tremainsville than I do at Secor/Monroe. For that matter, I have seen more tough-looking characters at the Walmart on Central/Holland-Sylvania that at the aforementioned Kroger.

As far as the Amango server: I missed that one. I must have been too busy listening to jr and SensorG.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 02:51:13 pm     #  

I've pulled into Kroger @ Southland quite a few times cuz they have a side room full of interesting beverages. Have yet to encounter a prob and may God have mercy on the soul who gets between me and a purchase of anchovies. Can I get an hallelujah?

posted by Mariner on Oct 04, 2013 at 04:21:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

Hey, historymike, I shop at the Jackman/Laskey Kroger on a fairly regular basis and have never felt unsafe there, sketchier characters notwithstanding. :)

posted by valbee on Oct 04, 2013 at 04:29:18 pm     #  

From Danneskjold: What can an addict do regardless of the price of smack? Sit on their couch watching Bugs Bunny and collecting benefits - that's it!

Not so. There are any number of functional addicts. You never hear much about them because they hold down a job, often a very good job, and their addiction doesn't cause them to commit violent crime.

HistoryMike has the right of it (nice link to the Cato paper - thanks). Prohibition does not stop the illegal substance use or abuse. If it did, the war on drugs would have been won many years back. It hasn't been won, it isn't being won and next year isn't looking any better. To see why, all you need to do is look at the prohibition era which will also show you how well prohibition works - it doesn't work, in case you need that spelled out.

Legalization and control of the substance is the only realistic choice. It isn't perfect, but if the government combined it with education about substance abuse and tax funded rehab programs we'd all be a lot better off. Fewer people in jail for regulatory crime, you see, which is always a good thing.

posted by madjack on Oct 04, 2013 at 04:34:38 pm     #  

Giant Eagle in Rossford/Perrysburg hires off duty officers all the time to run security.

posted by lfrost2125 on Oct 04, 2013 at 05:11:13 pm     #  

valbee: the last time I was at that Kroger (maybe two months ago) was a very late night journey to get some ribs I needed to get in the roaster first thing the next morning. There were a lot of really odd folks, the lighting was kind of dim outside, and there were some people congregating in the lot who did not seem to be shoppers.

So my perceptions are perhaps skewed by the lateness of the visit.

One reason I like the other Kroger better is its selection - the store on Jackman seems to have more products I do not use and fewer of the ones I like. Not sure if this is intentional, or maybe I keep catching them on the wrong day.

posted by historymike on Oct 04, 2013 at 05:24:32 pm     #  

This particular Kroger has been discussed previously on TT and I think I said the same things about it being crazy there and surprisingly, people disagreed.

The kroger on Monroe, as the one on Alexis are always a journey into a part of society that isn't "top shelf".

As far as purse snatching goes, about two weeks ago at the bowling alley on the east side, some woman grabbed another woman's purse and took off outside. She was tackled and held until police got there. She is now charged and going to trial. I'm surprised the local media, which always has it's finger on the pulse of sensationalizing, hasn't done some stories of the rise of these crimes.
Be careful out there ladies with your purses, and any men with their European Bags. Seems like purse snatching is on the rise again.

posted by hockeyfan on Oct 04, 2013 at 05:43:16 pm     #  

Locals have referred to that as the ghetto Kroger for ten years. Where else is the inner city supposed to buy 40 ouncers?

posted by a_fan on Oct 04, 2013 at 05:53:22 pm     #  

Without divulging too much info I can only say that I have quite a bit of experience with addicts. I have dozens of friends who have ridden the roller-coaster of addiction as well as acquaintances along the way. I have experience within the local penitentiaries, half way houses and detox centers as well as with law enforcement and counselors. I see daily the havoc that addiction causes – I have probably attended at least 3 dozen funerals for addicts – and this last year has been one of the worst on record due to the influx of heroin in the Toledo area. Is the havoc in the addicts life caused by pressure and consequences related to obtaining an illegal substance? Partially. However, the success stories – the people who turn their lives around - are usually the ones who’s stories include a rock bottom where all of their kind hearted benefactors, co-dependents and enablers no longer helped them. That doesn't mean these people stopped loving them but they were sickened enough by the disease to let the addict go. Some call it tough love. Trust me… coddle an addict, coddle an alcoholic and you are helping their addiction destroy them. Talk to anyone who has cleaned themselves up about the length that their addiction will make them go. They will lie, steal and do anything to get their drug of choice.

Yes Madjack – there are functioning addicts. Many are extremely skilled. Eventually, however the addiction will take its toll and they can no longer hold a job – at least not one that pays over the table and has any responsibilities that require sober, clear thinking.

I know both MadJack and History Mike are knowledgeable about what goes on around the city but I think few people really understand what is going on right now regarding heroin. It is an absolute epidemic in Toledo.

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 04, 2013 at 06:34:30 pm     #   1 person liked this

Madjack wrote: "Legalization and control of the substance is the only realistic choice. It isn't perfect, but if the government combined it with education about substance abuse and tax funded rehab programs we'd all be a lot better off. Fewer people in jail for regulatory crime, you see, which is always a good thing."

In theory that sounds good - tax funded rehab programs that is. The Tennyson Center (presently Compass) was a great place in the 80's and 90's and was a haven for Jeep workers and others who routinely went through rehabs once, thrice, 1/2 a dozen - some as many as 10x or more. Knowledge is not the answer - addicts know they are addicted - they are not often even afraid of death. They want their drug. Making addiction comfortable is not the answer. A rehab situation where you get two chances only? Maybe but then what? Permanent disability because they have an addiction?

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 04, 2013 at 08:04:01 pm     #  

From Danneskjold: Making addiction comfortable is not the answer. A rehab situation where you get two chances only? Maybe but then what? Permanent disability because they have an addiction?

I don't know. I know what the government and society are doing now is not working. With certain drugs, such as hallucinogenics, addition isn't a major factor as many people have used the drug and not become addicted. I've worked with people who have quit their drug of choice and not gone back.

I, for instance, quit smoking. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, and the worst part is that for five or six years after I quit I didn't dare have another cigarette. These days I don't want one, but back then things were a bit different.

I know that unless the addict really wants to quit, the rehab isn't going to take. And a lot of addicts do not want to quit; they like things the way they are.

Nope. No good solution, but I'll be happy with better than we're doing now.

posted by madjack on Oct 04, 2013 at 08:27:38 pm     #   1 person liked this

Keep in mind, too, that the more prevalent the incarceration of users is, the more likely you are to have them "driving your taxi or preparing your food." Taxi driving and kitchen work are high-turnover jobs with lax background requirements; ie, easy jobs for an ex-con to get, relatively speaking. When they get out of the joint, they have to work somewhere. The more ex-cons we create from non-violent drug users, the larger the ex-con hiring pool for those jobs is.
Just a thought.

posted by Sohio on Oct 04, 2013 at 09:33:48 pm     #  

It's interesting that the topic of safety was brought up because I stopped at the Dunkin' Donuts on Central near Douglas about 5:30 p.m. yesterday. It's in the same general area as the Monroe/Secor Krogers.

Anyway, I was amazed at the seedy characters I saw walking into the carryout next to DD. Related to my job, I was given training on how to identify gang members by their dress and tattoos. There were gang members hanging out in the parking lot. Then I went into DD and was behind a woman who was either drunk and/or drugged and was giving the cashier a hard time.

Walking out to my car, I passed what appeared to be a homeless guy (at least he looked like he lived in his clothes--and had a distinct aroma)!

Driving west on Central I saw a couple of women who looked like they may have been "looking for work."

Wow--it was a real eye-opener! I'm afraid that Toledo is on a fast-track down the Detroit road to ruin.

posted by Starr15 on Oct 04, 2013 at 10:07:19 pm     #  

taliesin52 posted at 02:51:30 PM on Oct 04, 2013:

Mike, the problem is addictive drugs don't follow the usual economic laws. Legalization won't fix this problem. First, there's no evidence that legalization will lower prices because there is no price point in which the addict won't attempt to meet. We're not talking about movie tickets here where, if the price is too high the consumer will just go without. We're talking about a product that is the focus of all thought for the consumer.

Regardless though, even lower prices won't fix the problem when the buyer has little to no money. Heck, in many cases it could exacerbate the problem. If heroin costs $10 right now for a good dose, a junkie will pay $10. If you legalize it and lower the price to $5, you know what the junkie will do with his $10? He'll buy two doses. He isn't going to turn around and spend the other $5 on groceries or a 401k. What's more, at the end of the day he still has to come up with that $5 for a vial. Lowering the price doesn't increase his available money. That means he'll still be out stealing, and he won't let anyone stand in his way.

The addiction beast will be fed before all other considerations in the addict's life. If that means stealing copper pipe out of an abandoned house he'll do that. If that means beating up a 93 year old woman and stealing her Social Security check, he'll do that. If it means cutting off his own arm and giving it to his dealer, he'll do that. McCrack and McHeroin won't fix the problem of irrational persistant demand.

Do a little research on Krokodil, then tell me whether the price or availability of heroin impacts the well being of opiate addicts.

posted by nick44 on Oct 05, 2013 at 12:04:39 am     #  

Here's some fuel for the fire. There are many addicts who get SS disability.

posted by hockeyfan on Oct 05, 2013 at 02:12:13 am     #  

The area seems to be declining. The first time I ever saw a scammer in Toledo was in this same lot (well by the Best Buy next to it).

Maybe OhioKimono can chime in. Wasn't this the same place/area where that guy flashed you some years back?

posted by INeedCoffee on Oct 05, 2013 at 02:39:19 am     #  

taliesin52 posted at 02:51:30 PM on Oct 04, 2013:

Mike, the problem is addictive drugs don't follow the usual economic laws. Legalization won't fix this problem. First, there's no evidence that legalization will lower prices because there is no price point in which the addict won't attempt to meet. We're not talking about movie tickets here where, if the price is too high the consumer will just go without. We're talking about a product that is the focus of all thought for the consumer.

Regardless though, even lower prices won't fix the problem when the buyer has little to no money. Heck, in many cases it could exacerbate the problem. If heroin costs $10 right now for a good dose, a junkie will pay $10. If you legalize it and lower the price to $5, you know what the junkie will do with his $10? He'll buy two doses. He isn't going to turn around and spend the other $5 on groceries or a 401k. What's more, at the end of the day he still has to come up with that $5 for a vial. Lowering the price doesn't increase his available money. That means he'll still be out stealing, and he won't let anyone stand in his way.

The addiction beast will be fed before all other considerations in the addict's life. If that means stealing copper pipe out of an abandoned house he'll do that. If that means beating up a 93 year old woman and stealing her Social Security check, he'll do that. If it means cutting off his own arm and giving it to his dealer, he'll do that. McCrack and McHeroin won't fix the problem of irrational persistant demand.

^^Exactly. Why do so many find this so hard to understand? My guess is that the "lets legalize it all" crowd are basing their thought process on their own desire to be able to smoke dope legally; wherever, whenever.

As for the above mentioned Kroger, if I absolutely must run in there for a quick item, it is morning daylight hours only. I've witnessed far too many "events" in that parking lot that I have no desire to become involved with. Of course, I can pretty much say the same thing about the Kroger in my own hood - Point Place. That store has also become a shit hole since the closing of the Manhattan Blvd. store.

Thankfully, precious little of my shopping is done at any Kroger store these days.

posted by Foodie on Oct 05, 2013 at 03:35:13 am     #  

justread said:

Take Southland off of your list. :)

I did that years ago.

posted by Foodie on Oct 05, 2013 at 03:37:23 am     #  

My guess is that the "lets legalize it all" crowd are basing their thought process on their own desire to be able to smoke dope legally; wherever, whenever. -- Foodie

1. Wrong. I do not even drink or smoke, let alone use drugs. Nice ad hominem attempt, though.

2. I am fed up with wasting billions of dollars per year on failed policies. That is my principal objection to the War on Drugs. One policy group estimates that the U.S. has spent a trillion dollars in this failure. One. Trillion. Dollars. Think about that for a moment. And this figure is just direct government spending on interdiction and incarceration. We could probably quadruple that number if we included the loss of productivity and the financial costs to families of the incarcerated drug users.

3. I am also concerned about the human costs, both in terms of the tens of millions of Americans incarcerated in the past few decades and the great damage to families and communities associated with locking up people who could instead be doing something more productive than wasting away in a jail cell. Sure, having a drug user as a parent is a lousy thing pretty shitty not ideal, but having an absent addict parent who is incarcerated cannot be a step up for children in the long run.

4. Instead of sticking in the "Drugs Are Bad And Drug Users Are Dangerous Criminals" mentalité, take a look at the example of Portugal, which began decriminalizing drug possession in 2001 and made this is a civil infraction. Since this policy shift began, the number of HIV cases has dropped significantly, the criminal justice system has been unclogged from drug cases, teenage drug use has declined, and many more addicts have sought treatment in the less threatening environment. Has the drug problem been "cured"? No, and it probably never will, as people have been getting high / stoned / wasted /drunk since before the written record. However, the Portuguese are spending a lot less money on housing inmates, and more people are getting drug treatment instead of rotting in a cell.

posted by historymike on Oct 05, 2013 at 05:58:37 am     #   4 people liked this

Interesting that someone mentioned the Alexis Kroger. No matter how nearby it is on his errands route, Mr. Gamegrrl refuses to shop the Secor/Monroe Kroger.

If you want some REALLY interesting people-watching, give the Woodville Road Kroger a go. shiver

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 05, 2013 at 10:44:22 am     #   1 person liked this

I have never used illegal drugs and like posted above, I'd like to see them legalized to some degree.

And like posted above, I'm a "do something or get off the pot" kind of person. The "War on Drugs" is an incredible failure. The occasional media ops to post pics of huge amounts of drugs and cash taken from drug runners, etc. is nothing compared to what is out there. Most people are using some kind of drug. Alcohol, caffeine, weed, coke, etc. are all easily obtainable. Heck, alcohol use is even promoted in society.
Change the laws. Don't make it so meth labs are "o.k.", but someone who smokes weed on their own time without harming others is breaking the law how?
Enforce and strengthen the laws we have for abuse and being under the influence while doing something that can harm others.

Monroe Kroger, Alexis Kroger, and sometimes Laskey Kroger are always an adventure. It's like peeking into another world going to those places. I'm sure a lot of people are somewhat afraid of going there sometimes. People are scary. I take my time and try to be respectful and courteous in the parking lot and store there, but it doesn't matter. People speed through the parking lots, won't more their carts when they are blocking the entire aisle, etc. Just rude in general. I haven't been involved in the crime aspect of the place, yet. I'm sure I will be in the future.

posted by hockeyfan on Oct 05, 2013 at 10:57:54 am     #   1 person liked this

This is all the fault of the kids selling dollar candy bars in the parking lot. My cousin told me so, so I am sure of it.

posted by MariaL on Oct 05, 2013 at 11:03:13 am     #   3 people liked this

Brain fart on my post above. What I was TRYING to say is that Mr. Gamegrrl won't shop at Monroe/Secor, and does all of our Kroger shopping at the Alexis location.

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 05, 2013 at 11:18:59 am     #   1 person liked this

posted by SherryET on Oct 05, 2013 at 12:25:29 pm     #  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-nSBPuRbsg

Even animals get drunk.
(Sorry about the above post)

posted by SherryET on Oct 05, 2013 at 12:27:33 pm     #  

HistoryMike said it best.

Now, I've shopped at all those locations at one time or another. It wasn't so long ago that Main Lady and I would be stopping in to a Kroger's at around 2:00 AM on our way home. We needed some breakfast food, you see. I never had a problem or saw any scary people (except for this tall dude who squinted at everything and cursed under his breath a lot), but then I'm not 90 years old. Yet.

I probably won't let mom shop by herself anymore at that place. She's been packing her gat in her purse, and I think that's going to have to change.

posted by madjack on Oct 05, 2013 at 02:19:14 pm     #  

Actually, gamegrrl, the Alexis location is where we find ourselves more and more often these days. Jackman is closer, but I dislike the store--not because of the characters who shop there, but because of the expansion. Both the size of the store and the ridiculous layout make it an absolute pain to run in for the few things we need.

Interesting sidenote (OK, maybe only interesting to me): I recently listened to a talk given by a visually impaired woman who said she shops at Wal-Mart instead of Kroger because they don't continually move things around. I don't think one has to visually impaired to appreciate that logic.

posted by valbee on Oct 05, 2013 at 02:28:05 pm     #   1 person liked this

Both the size of the store and the ridiculous layout make it an absolute pain to run in for the few things we need.

Why do all new stores have to be mega-boxes? Before you type, I know--economics. But there's the opposite dynamic...like valbee, people who just want to get a few things and GTFO.

Some of the mega-stores are nice, but every Kroger doesn't have to be a gazzilion square feet with a European market/bistro, coffee shop, haircut place, 54 types of fresh bread, etc.

I'm fairly young and do marathons and other distance runs/walks...but shit, how does everyone with an artificial hip/knee, arthritis, walker, etc. plan to go get food in 10 years? All of these goddamn places are going to be the size of a Wal-Mart and only have food.

I guess 4 - 5 aisle Aldi stores will be the answer, but even the oldsters like brand names once in a while and should have to hike through places that feature their own climate zones to get a jar of Skippy.

posted by oldhometown on Oct 05, 2013 at 06:41:42 pm     #  

At least it isn't as small as Sofo's on Monroe. Talk about cramped. Geez.

posted by hockeyfan on Oct 05, 2013 at 06:46:05 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'd rather see store planners aim towards "Sofo's with wide aisles for Toledo fatties" than "Boeing aircraft hanger--now with food!"

posted by oldhometown on Oct 05, 2013 at 06:51:52 pm     #  

I work at facilities that require drug testing before you ever step foot on their sites, and I also work at several locations deemed "high value" and Uncle Sam put me through a background check and randomly checks my pee pee through safety inspectors on the job site. On average I have to give a sample twice a month. I don't advise anyone use street drugs, I also think people cruising through life on Zoloft instead of dealing with their problems is just as much of an addict. The prescription drugs some people gobble down to deal with their issues does as much damage to their body as most street drugs do (the 8 zillion side effects).

What I am tired of its paying 6 thousand dollars to bust somebody for 200 dollars worth of pot. Then I'm also tied of paying for the lifelong welfare recipient mentioned above as he now can never get a decent job (nobody hires a drug felon), so he relies on the system by having a bunch of baby mommas to leach off of. I'm tired of paying for police resources to fight inner city crime they will never win, there is no one big Capone to bust to bring this game to an end, you can not slay a beast with a million heads. It's the biggest government spending boondoggle and I just can't understand how real "conservatives" can rubberstamp this theft of wealth from the middle class then funneled into government UNIONS, State UNIONS, prison UNIONS, and frittered into the hands of piss test clinics and GPS tracking companies instead of roads and schools.

Ok maybe in America we are not ready for full legislation but I've been to Amsterdam and it works. A couple of blocks of debauchery that keeps to itself and the rest of the city chugs around fine. No reason we couldn't repurpose vast empty section of Detroit and turn it into the same thing. Make it upscale and shower it with entrainment options and cops, it would be the new Vegas. I can tell you this idea has been floated through Detroit city hall a few times as of late.

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 06, 2013 at 07:37:17 am     #   3 people liked this

"and frittered into the hands of piss test clinics and GPS tracking companies instead of roads and schools."

WHAT?! And support Teacher's UNIONS and County Road Crew UNIONS?

From my cold, dead hands, dbw.

posted by Sohio on Oct 06, 2013 at 11:38:14 am     #   2 people liked this

Would rather support the paving of roads and teaching of our kids at the end of the day.

Lesser of two evils :)

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 06, 2013 at 11:44:19 am     #   2 people liked this

From DBW8906: Ok maybe in America we are not ready for full legislation but I've been to Amsterdam and it works. A couple of blocks of debauchery that keeps to itself and the rest of the city chugs around fine. No reason we couldn't repurpose vast empty section of Detroit and turn it into the same thing. Make it upscale and shower it with entrainment options and cops, it would be the new Vegas. I can tell you this idea has been floated through Detroit city hall a few times as of late.

Sounds like a good project for Kick Starter. Buy up 12 city blocks, bulldoze and build it, they will come. Investors get a token for one freebee at Mad Jack's High Rise Whore House House of One Thousand Immoral Delights. I'll bet I get funded in thirty minutes.

The area could be called Little Amsterdam, or LA for short. The real problem would be the Detroit cops shaking down the sex workers and pot houses.

posted by madjack on Oct 07, 2013 at 09:49:47 am     #   1 person liked this

Valbee- I don't think there are two kroger in the area with the same layout... makes me crazy!

posted by stooks on Oct 07, 2013 at 09:59:43 am     #  

You guys keep talking like this should be in Detroit, what are you thinking!? I've been saying for years that the Marina district would be a perfect location for "Little Amsterdam."

Hell if the Chinese want they could keep it all oriental themed, and that would just add to the ambience. The "Mad Jacks House of one Thousand Immoral Delights" fits perfectly.

posted by glasscityguy on Oct 07, 2013 at 10:22:02 am     #   1 person liked this

I constantly remind my mother (76 years) who lives near the mall to not shop at the Kroger. She now goes to the one further up Monroe St in Sylvania. I also had a business client in town and due to our agenda the next day, recommended the hotel on Secor road. He went to that Kroger that night upon arriving in town. His first question to me the following morning was "What kind of neighborhood did you put me in !)

posted by Hoops on Oct 07, 2013 at 10:49:48 am     #  

Madjack

Count me in as an investor. I'm old enough to remember when Toledo actually had whorehouses and a few of them were actually counted as "classy". But back then it was also still safe to go grocery shopping.

posted by Wydowmaker on Oct 07, 2013 at 11:07:27 am     #   1 person liked this

madjack posted at 10:49:47 AM on Oct 07, 2013:

From DBW8906: Ok maybe in America we are not ready for full legislation but I've been to Amsterdam and it works. A couple of blocks of debauchery that keeps to itself and the rest of the city chugs around fine. No reason we couldn't repurpose vast empty section of Detroit and turn it into the same thing. Make it upscale and shower it with entrainment options and cops, it would be the new Vegas. I can tell you this idea has been floated through Detroit city hall a few times as of late.

Sounds like a good project for Kick Starter. Buy up 12 city blocks, bulldoze and build it, they will come. Investors get a token for one freebee at Mad Jack's High Rise Whore House House of One Thousand Immoral Delights. I'll bet I get funded in thirty minutes.

The area could be called Little Amsterdam, or LA for short. The real problem would be the Detroit cops shaking down the sex workers and pot houses.

I think we saw the same episode of Low Winter Sun.

:)

posted by justread on Oct 07, 2013 at 11:33:52 am     #   2 people liked this

I live 3 blocks (unfortunately) from this Kroger store. We only go to this store in an emergency, which means 1-3 times per YEAR. Now, we do most of our grocery shopping at night, and on the rare occasion that we have had to go there, my husband will go in and I will stay in the car with the doors locked. Whoever said it is like watching the Jerry Springer show, hit it right on. I cringe when I see older folks walking by themselves through that parking lot at night. And yes, the Speedway at Jackman/Tremainsville/Sylvania, which I pass roughly 4 times per day, has also become a scary place at night.

posted by llz on Oct 07, 2013 at 11:38:55 am     #  

From llz: my husband will go in and I will stay in the car with the doors locked.

Unless you're armed with a firearm that you are willing to use for the purposes of self-defense, this is the most dangerous place for you to be. As you sit, you're now a target of opportunity. The bad guy will smash the window and take what he wants.

Go inside with your Main Man, and at least he'll be willing to protect you from harm. If he can't, he'll cheerfully slow up the attackers while you run for it and call the cops.

Of course, if you're both packing heat you can get the opposition in a cross fire - one taking cover behind the meat counter and keeping 'em busy while the other circles around through the beverage section and pulls a flank attack.

posted by madjack on Oct 07, 2013 at 03:48:04 pm     #  

You know, I'm kind of wondering what it would take to get the laws and the zoning changed for the Marina district. The LA Marina has a nice ring to it. Kind of rolls off the tongue, so to speak.

We'd have to cut the city council members in for a percentage, but the money rolling in the way that it would I see that as more of an opportunity rather than a detriment. The biggest problem the investors would face is paying off Uncle Sam and deciding right off that we were all going to share the hog trough; not spill the slop.

The LA Marina.
Mad Jack's House of One Thousand Immoral Delights.
All right here. All legal.

We might even get a little boat casino with off track betting and so forth.

Maybe I should email Toledo city council and get some feedback. You think?

posted by madjack on Oct 07, 2013 at 03:56:43 pm     #  

I recommend people avoid that Kroger after dark.

posted by EconCat88 on Oct 07, 2013 at 06:59:32 pm     #  

I haven't been to Toledo in years. It doesn't look like I shall want to be for a long, long time.

posted by tomshiba on Oct 12, 2013 at 01:40:37 pm     #  

madjack posted at 04:56:43 PM on Oct 07, 2013:

You know, I'm kind of wondering what it would take to get the laws and the zoning changed for the Marina district. The LA Marina has a nice ring to it. Kind of rolls off the tongue, so to speak.

We'd have to cut the city council members in for a percentage, but the money rolling in the way that it would I see that as more of an opportunity rather than a detriment. The biggest problem the investors would face is paying off Uncle Sam and deciding right off that we were all going to share the hog trough; not spill the slop.

The LA Marina.
Mad Jack's House of One Thousand Immoral Delights.

All right here. All legal.

We might even get a little boat casino with off track betting and so forth.

Maybe I should email Toledo city council and get some feedback. You think?

Something like this?

posted by Sohio on Oct 13, 2013 at 01:04:28 pm     #  

tomshiba posted at 02:40:37 PM on Oct 12, 2013:

I haven't been to Toledo in years. It doesn't look like I shall want to be for a long, long time.

Ok, see you later I guess?

posted by hunkytownsausage on Oct 13, 2013 at 06:28:09 pm     #   3 people liked this

Madjack: Shouldn't that 'flank attack' take place in the meat department? :-)

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 14, 2013 at 07:38:08 am     #   1 person liked this

Every time I read the gun nuts here talk about how great it will be when they, fully armed, can take out the bad guys, I think they must have seen too many action flicks. Kinda like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHyM_fCHPrI

posted by Anniecski on Oct 14, 2013 at 09:13:13 am     #  

I know "The Wire" came up in another thread. It's one of my favorite series, in particular for the season one portrayal of the street level drug trade. In season three, a Captain, fed up with drugs and the associated criminality, creates an "enterprise zone" that gets the nickname "Hamsterdam".

In Hamsterdam, drug use, sales and possession are decriminalized. Needle exchanges and health care are provided. People involved in the lifestyle (buyers and sellers) are actually steered towards the area. In the series, it leads to dramatic improvements, specifically in the surrounding neighborhoods in quality of life issues.

Hamsterdam didn't last. The Captain that advocated for its' creation and defacto legalization gets sacked. I realize the series is a work of fiction. But at times, when viewed in light of our current efforts... I wonder if it would work on any level or scale? What area(s) would we be willing to parcel off?

posted by Solleks on Oct 14, 2013 at 10:26:44 am     #  

Solleks, The Wire was one of the most thought provoking shows I have seen. This coming from a generally fiscally, socially liberal person.

For the record, after much contemplation - IMHO - The concept of Hamsterdam is the antithesis of cruelty. Just as welfare is a harsh soul destroying demon cloaked in virtue Hamsterdam would eventually achieve the same result. It is better for man to know that he has a value which he is not living up to then to imprint upon that man that he retains no value whatsoever.

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 14, 2013 at 11:49:08 am     #   1 person liked this

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — Inigo Montoya

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 14, 2013 at 01:34:40 pm     #  

Danneskjold posted at 12:49:08 PM on Oct 14, 2013:

Solleks, The Wire was one of the most thought provoking shows I have seen. This coming from a generally fiscally, socially liberal person.

For the record, after much contemplation - IMHO - The concept of Hamsterdam is the antithesis of cruelty. Just as welfare is a harsh soul destroying demon cloaked in virtue Hamsterdam would eventually achieve the same result. It is better for man to know that he has a value which he is not living up to then to imprint upon that man that he retains no value whatsoever.

"the antithesis of cruelty" is to continue to rob the taxpayer blind to fund a drug war that is destroying his own neighborhood.

I promise if you ask the residents of now crumbling West Toledo if they would have liked all the "thugs" to reside at the LA Marina or their block I can guarantee you the answer they would pick.

DJ - Because you CHOOSE to vote to take money out of my pocket to hurt people that you don't agree with doesn't make it "moral" or "cruel". You are using the self described "welfare" system to funnel bad guys into my neighborhood and keep them out of yours.

"Hamsterdam would eventually achieve the same result." - Yes it's name sake Amsterdam is falling down around it's knees with all the immoral, soul crushing drug users right?

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 14, 2013 at 02:57:58 pm     #  

gamegrrl posted at 08:38:08 AM on Oct 14, 2013:

Madjack: Shouldn't that 'flank attack' take place in the meat department? :-)

I know that you are just ribbing him, and he'd be the butt of that joke if this were a roast, but there's too much at steak.

posted by justread on Oct 14, 2013 at 03:18:08 pm     #   5 people liked this

tomshiba posted at 02:40:37 PM on Oct 12, 2013:

I haven't been to Toledo in years. It doesn't look like I shall want to be for a long, long time.

posted by Ace_Face on Oct 14, 2013 at 03:24:25 pm     #   2 people liked this

The antithesis of cruelty would be kindness.

Unless I'm reading incorrectly between the lines, "The concept of Hamsterdam is the epitome of cruelty." or ""The epitome of cruelty" is to continue to rob the taxpayer blind to fund a drug war that is destroying his own neighborhood." is what Danneskjold and dbw8906 are trying to say.

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 14, 2013 at 03:59:23 pm     #  

justread posted at 04:18:08 PM on Oct 14, 2013:
gamegrrl posted at 08:38:08 AM on Oct 14, 2013:

Madjack: Shouldn't that 'flank attack' take place in the meat department? :-)

I know that you are just ribbing him, and he'd be the butt of that joke if this were a roast, but there's too much at steak.

I can barely work the keyboard, the monitor is badly blurred in places and when I finally decipher the message I get this? What am I, chopped liver?

You two are bad and both of you should have to sit on a bar stool and have your mouth rinsed out with gin.

posted by madjack on Oct 14, 2013 at 04:32:21 pm     #   2 people liked this

From Sollecks: What area(s) would we be willing to parcel off?

I'd be willing to start with One Government Center and expand outward from there. Think of the new development like you would think about a missing manhole cover in the middle of Monroe Street during rush hour. One or two may hit it by mistake, but they were very likely texting while driving anyway. I'm betting that after a few busted axles no one else will hit that man-made sink hole who doesn't do it on purpose.

And, should anyone feel the need, we now know what to do with the steam plant. If it's still around, that is. Is it?

posted by madjack on Oct 14, 2013 at 04:37:48 pm     #  

gamegirl you are correct - I should have stated "Epitome of cruelty" not antithesis.

I understand the Drug War dilemma as noted by DBW.

There are no easy solutions and like most things the solution is a combination of efforts.

posted by Danneskjold on Oct 14, 2013 at 04:42:48 pm     #   2 people liked this

I find myself wondering if any of you have read "Wool", "Shift" and "Dust" books by Hugh Howey.

posted by gamegrrl on Oct 14, 2013 at 05:18:19 pm     #  

DJ - I agree, we just can't keep asking middle class families to fund the destruction of their own neighborhoods. We are PAYING for the expansion of the blackmarket. The war on drugs has destroyed "west toledos" all over the country, and the families have paid the dime to do so. It's lunacy.

DJ if you really cared about society you would be on the water wagon, banning booze as it has no medicinal value, causes more traffic fatalities than any other substance, causes more interpersonal violence than all street drugs combined, and damages every part of your body it touches, we glorify it in media, and most manufacturers get handouts from Uncle Sam to make and market POISON.

If you really cared for "souls" of "users" you would take a stand on devil firewater, but I'm guessing you will not.

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 15, 2013 at 07:12:03 am     #  

dbw - are you really advocating prohibition to resolve the problem being discussed in this thread?

posted by jimavolt on Oct 15, 2013 at 08:25:15 am     #  

Not at all, I'm just pointing out the stupidity of the "drug warriors".

You couldn't run a commercial during the Lions game with hot females draped all over fat dudes because they are holding a dime bag of the Chronic, or a cute little puppy called Mainline MacKenzie shooting up black tar heroin could you? But Jack Daniels kills more folk than heisenberg blue meth and we can billboard that shit all over the place. "Drug warriors" will slam a 12 pack watching the Lions getting hammered drunk, then say "lock all those druggies up! Well that is as long as your don't take the juice that makes me cool at parties and helps me dance". If booze were invited today it would be a Class A controlled substance.

Liquid poison GOOD, smoke poison BAD!!!

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 15, 2013 at 08:40:09 am     #  

The most two faced part is many of th TT "drug warriors" have spent time posting entire threads about which form of liquid inebriation get you the drunkest while being the most tasty.

Like I said, hurt the minority and their evil "weed" but don't you take the juice that all potbellied American males drown themselves in 5 o o6 times a week deal with "life" and then brag to all their friends about.

"Whoa billy I just killed a 5th of artisan booze of the week aint I cool and aren't you proud of me of being a part of American, now get busy locking those niggers up with their sinful joints. Fucking addicts". - This message sponsored by conservative Americans who drink more than most of them evil Libertards.

posted by dbw8906 on Oct 15, 2013 at 08:46:40 am     #   1 person liked this

I'm still scratching my head a little, time for an afternoon sipper - bourbon and water. Cheers.

posted by jimavolt on Oct 15, 2013 at 01:17:26 pm     #   4 people liked this

To your health.
Sip.

posted by justread on Oct 15, 2013 at 03:25:50 pm     #   1 person liked this