Toledo Talk

Promedica garage plans

Well now, here's a shock. The plan to sacrifice green space so Promedica can build their parking garage has been approved. Who in the world saw that coming????

"They paved paradise and put in a parking lot.". Oh my, how we've grown.

created by hippiechick on Aug 18, 2015 at 05:30:55 pm     Comments: 29

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Rich relations may give you a crust of bread and such. You can help yourself but don't take too much 'Cos Mama may have. Papa may have...

posted by Mariner on Aug 18, 2015 at 06:02:43 pm     #  

Dashing Pacific is selling their piece of the Marina District land. Maybe a concerned, local citizen will buy it and convert this green space into a greener space.

posted by jr on Aug 18, 2015 at 06:20:52 pm     #   8 people liked this

Isn't that from the first Blood Sweat and Tears album? I have that on vinyl , I believe. On one hand we have a nice view of the river , a decent amount of space to do any number of things. But we're not. The steam plant , many have tried and many have failed. David Ball couldn't even make a go at it. What exactly is our problem? It wasn't that long ago we had Rally by the Rivers that were very well attended. The Erie Street Market , for a time ,was packed with people spending money. When was the last time ,except for Fireworks , that there's been anything going on down there at the Riverfront? We've wasted that space , let's wait and see if ProMedica can breathe some life into that space. We're certainly not using it.

posted by marving on Aug 18, 2015 at 06:36:07 pm     #   2 people liked this

and now time for some rational thinking...

posted by justareviewer on Aug 18, 2015 at 06:59:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

I was thinking of the Joni Mitchell song.

posted by hippiechick on Aug 18, 2015 at 08:01:35 pm     #  

Totally agree with econcat on the above video. Not to derail, but has anyone Seen the trail near the zoo lately? The zoo has paid to have the median seeded with "urban prairie wild flowers". They're all native species, reseed every year and get fully thick by 3 years. Why doesn't the city just hit all the medians with this stuff? It looks awesome. Oh wait, then no one gets paid to mow it every other week. My bad.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 18, 2015 at 09:05:57 pm     #   4 people liked this

was there a new plan announced today? all of the site plans for the promedica development showed a ton of green space...

posted by upso on Aug 18, 2015 at 11:25:01 pm     #   1 person liked this

all of the site plans for the promedica development showed a ton of green space

I know. Especially the first one, huh? :D

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 06:08:28 am     #  

Sorry Hippiechick I was referring to Mariner's post....

posted by marving on Aug 19, 2015 at 06:22:09 am     #  

marving posted at 06:22:09 AM on Aug 19, 2015:

Sorry Hippiechick I was referring to Mariner's post....

Billie Holiday. God Bless the Child, 1941.

I took it as a subtle ironic dig at the original poster, drawing an exaggerated comparison between the child in the song, and anyone who has the blues over ProMedica Park downtown.

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 06:32:40 am     #  

Nope. Swipe at the strong and healthy taking advantage of those who are less so.

posted by Mariner on Aug 19, 2015 at 07:27:15 am     #  

That's the trouble with subtle. :)

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 07:40:49 am     #   1 person liked this

Also like Joni Mitchell's work. ;}

posted by Mariner on Aug 19, 2015 at 08:43:22 am     #  

So long as the city requires them to build the garage as they've been presenting it, I don't understand how anyone could be against this. I don't know exactly how big the park is, or the full dimension it will be after, but just spitballing: we can have an eight acre park as it stands right now that gets a couple events a year and virtually no activity otherwise, or a six acre park that gets regular usage all year. Oh, and the added benefit of an extra thousand people working downtown. Plus whatever additional business that generates as services expand to support them.

The only problem I have with the current plan: they've gone a bit overboard filling every space in with trees and terraced walkways. Keep at least some significant section open for concerts and big events.

posted by Johio83 on Aug 19, 2015 at 09:12:07 am     #   3 people liked this

BS&T covered it on , I believe , their first album and did a very nice job

posted by marving on Aug 19, 2015 at 09:40:21 am     #  

a parking garage instead of a surface parking lot is considered a win by most measures.

infill and rehab of existing buildings is considered a win by most measures.

jobs and in turn residential returning to the Central Business District is considered a win by most standards.

these are things that most people who care about planning, the environment, and those that advocate lower taxes (due to lower infrastructure and services costs in high density areas) would support.

i have stated previously, i would prefer the parking garage to be parallel to summit st and not cross over water street AND that public bathrooms be incorporated into the design at Promenade Park level so that when there are events our downtown doesnt look like port o potty heaven

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Aug 19, 2015 at 09:52:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Am sorry but what grand events do you folks envision? It's going to be a frigid day in hades when the unwashed masses are invited into shangri-la. More important the 1,000 jobs represented will more than likely shrink with the passage of time and diminution of the taxpayers' memory faculties. There simply is no firm commitment on future employment with resultant benefit for Toledo.

posted by Mariner on Aug 19, 2015 at 10:33:20 am     #  

marving posted at 09:40:21 AM on Aug 19, 2015:

BS&T covered it on , I believe , their first album and did a very nice job

http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorials/2001/05/25/Reasons-to-rally.html

Blood Sweat and Tears played ProMedica Park in 2001, when it was a public space called Promenade Park that used to be a gathering place for the community and boaters.

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 10:37:46 am     #  

I have seen the blueprints for the parking garage, Key Bank Bldg, and the Steam plant......it looks really nice. there is space on the parking garage near Summit St, and the first floor of the Key Bank building for a restaurant, coffee shops, etc. There are other things that will be going on that will make the site open to the public and have a good impact on the area. This reminds me of everyone who was against the ballpark being built downtown, saying they would never come to a game anymore....oops, it turned out pretty good.

posted by Hoops on Aug 19, 2015 at 11:41:27 am     #   5 people liked this

Hoops posted at 11:41:27 AM on Aug 19, 2015:

I have seen the blueprints for the parking garage, Key Bank Bldg, and the Steam plant......it looks really nice. there is space on the parking garage near Summit St, and the first floor of the Key Bank building for a restaurant, coffee shops, etc. There are other things that will be going on that will make the site open to the public and have a good impact on the area. This reminds me of everyone who was against the ballpark being built downtown, saying they would never come to a game anymore....oops, it turned out pretty good.

There will always be those that are going to be negative regardless. They will always find something to latch on to why "X" is a bad idea. If a community wants to grow and turn around they simply need to start ignoring these people and push through. The ballpark is a wonderful example. So many were up in arms of taking them out of Maumee and how downtown was a horrible place to make people go. Now Toledo is the #2 minor league market out of 220 other cities...the negative people got it wrong.

Promedica is much the same way. Regardless of how you feel about the business or promises being made - this is a massive investment into the CBD that will put people down there. It will be a catalyst for other (small) businesses just due to to the increased market that will now be there.

At the end of the day at least something new and major is happening down there. For too long the attitude of the city has been to just sit there and mope and whine for someone else to come bail us out while businesses continued to leave.

posted by JustaSooner on Aug 19, 2015 at 11:50:41 am     #  

"There are other things that will be going on that will make the site open to the public and have a good impact on the area."

I think that is the key with this project, and all projects going forward. Discourage any inclusive development for things that could just as easily be done for the public. Owens Corning is a perfect example of a headquarters that is self-sufficient, and can basically survive without any involvement with the rest of downtown, which is the opposite of what actually helps an urban core thrive.

posted by Johio83 on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:09:47 pm     #  

It will look great once it's completed. I walk my dog a lot at the park and my boyfriend and I run and bike along the river a lot and we would love to know why we never see any of these people complaining when we are down there. There's usually no more than 20 people at any one time at Promenade Park and if there are that many people complaining about then why are there so few people at the park?

Another unit owner in my building went to a couple of the hearings (she is in full support of this like most other downtown property owners) and said there were people as far away as Findlay complaining, why would someone be complaining about something a city an hour away is doing that has no effect on them??????

I work downtown and own a loft in the downtown/warehouse district area and everyone in my office and my building are excited this is going to materialize. The only people living downtown that I have heard are complaining are some people at the Riverfront apartments in the old Toledo trust building across the street from the Steam Plant and I am clueless as to why they are complaining since they aren't even paying market rent for their apartments unless they are worried that the building owner will sell or find this to be a great opportunity to make improvements to the building and market them to Promedica employees as market rate rentals.

posted by classylady on Aug 19, 2015 at 02:34:02 pm     #  

everyone in my office and my building

I admire the totality and completeness of the pool she interviewed. Can't argue with 100%.

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 03:52:53 pm     #   4 people liked this

there were people as far away as Findlay complaining, why would someone be complaining about something a city an hour away is doing that has no effect on them??????

These aren't just busybodies-Toledo's riverfront is a symbolic center for the entire region-believe it or not, it doesn't belong to only the people that work and live downtown. Further-I haven't done an exhaustive poll like you have,but I don't know anyone either that is opposed to Promedica taking the steam plant. And I know I'm repeating myself here-The reason people are upset is because a) That was the most half-assed site search for a parking structure any of us have ever seen. b) there was zero transparency c) No one is being held accountable by the city. The Site they selected very well have been the optimal location, but no due diligence betrays that possibility.

Promenade Park was, as we all can wax nostalgic, a very important and positive piece of land relative to Toledo City pride in the last several decades. No matter what Promedica decides to do with it is now sort of irrelevant, because it no longer belongs to the region. That's a shame, not because Promedica is evil or rich, but because that was something that people across the region, as far away as Findlay, felt like they had a piece of.

It's also a shame that site wasn't utilized in the last 20 years. For all of the PR campaigns etc, that were held to correct the image of the city, the city spectacularly blew a chance to revitalize that property if only by tying it's rehab to 5/3 field and coordinating events. Opening day BBQ? Relocate Rib Off? Party in the park return? AND-using that property as a chance to bring in more income rather than tax people burning through reddish lights.

No one's pissed about Promedica, they're pissed because the city has totally sucked at having a cohesive plan and are easily talked into anything by a smooth talker with seemingly deep pockets. Our legacy is one of suckers, let's just hope Promedica isn't going to take any more advantage.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 19, 2015 at 04:59:35 pm     #   4 people liked this

But my problem with the above argument is that Promenade Park is actually going to be bigger even with the parking garage on it than it was during its heyday, when the Federal Building took up half of what is now the park space. Not to mention, the Federal Building ran along Summit, blocking any river view from the road.

posted by Johio83 on Aug 19, 2015 at 05:12:09 pm     #   3 people liked this

ahmahler posted at 04:59:35 PM on Aug 19, 2015:
there were people as far away as Findlay complaining, why would someone be complaining about something a city an hour away is doing that has no effect on them??????

These aren't just busybodies-Toledo's riverfront is a symbolic center for the entire region-believe it or not, it doesn't belong to only the people that work and live downtown. Further-I haven't done an exhaustive poll like you have,but I don't know anyone either that is opposed to Promedica taking the steam plant. And I know I'm repeating myself here-The reason people are upset is because a) That was the most half-assed site search for a parking structure any of us have ever seen. b) there was zero transparency c) No one is being held accountable by the city. The Site they selected very well have been the optimal location, but no due diligence betrays that possibility.

Promenade Park was, as we all can wax nostalgic, a very important and positive piece of land relative to Toledo City pride in the last several decades. No matter what Promedica decides to do with it is now sort of irrelevant, because it no longer belongs to the region. That's a shame, not because Promedica is evil or rich, but because that was something that people across the region, as far away as Findlay, felt like they had a piece of.

It's also a shame that site wasn't utilized in the last 20 years. For all of the PR campaigns etc, that were held to correct the image of the city, the city spectacularly blew a chance to revitalize that property if only by tying it's rehab to 5/3 field and coordinating events. Opening day BBQ? Relocate Rib Off? Party in the park return? AND-using that property as a chance to bring in more income rather than tax people burning through reddish lights.

No one's pissed about Promedica, they're pissed because the city has totally sucked at having a cohesive plan and are easily talked into anything by a smooth talker with seemingly deep pockets. Our legacy is one of suckers, let's just hope Promedica isn't going to take any more advantage.

Damn that was well said. If you had included the perspective of area Mariners, ( we got screwed and we used it and GASP supported it financially for years.) you'd have nailed it. completely. What today's uber hip users of the space for a walk or a jog or let their dog poop don't realize is that boaters like me once stood in line all night in February to pick three docks for the season. Betty Mauk wasn't celebrated when she passed for no reason. I didn't spend moments there. I spent days.

No matter what "side" anybody is or was on, this was worthy of even more discussion and debate than it got, and otherwise nice people are now stooping to post shaming folks who are somewhat conflicted yet reticent.
Some idiot will read your post and explain to the rest of the class that you are what's always been wrong with Toledo and stuff. Bullshit.
Meanwhile. I wish ProMedica well in using the space however they see fit. They certainly won't have to rent the deck of the Boyer for fireworks now.
I'll boat past heading for places where cities with waterfronts understand how to use them. The marina district is simply an east side marina run by Brenners. We'll go to maumee bay state park or put in bay. Again.

posted by justread on Aug 19, 2015 at 05:40:26 pm     #   6 people liked this

Got a chance to finally tour the project over the weekend with a buddy who works for Laibe.

Gotta say - they didn't spare a penny and did a great job. Yes, you lost some space with the garage, but what they have given to the community was well worth it.

That pile of dirt and rocks with grass spread thinly called promenade park will not be missed.

Great design, good concept, art work, fire pits, movie screen, brick laid road, manicured landscaping, barry bagels, chop house, lots of lighting and more.

This was a win for the community and not just Promedica. You can really for the first time in my lifetime feel a pulse downtown.

I also, was lucky enough to go through the new Renaissance Hotel and again - excellent job. The Heights on the rooftop area will be a popular spot. Great views, nice lounge area and wood fired pizza. Can't beat that.

Nice to see the River finally being embraced again after being forgotten for decades.

As I said in another thread. Connect this to the docks with a water taxi and you will continue to see development. In all honesty, no company can really make enough money to justify opening a water taxi, however, Promedica could certainly afford it, even if at a loss and I would love to see them give that to the community as we have certainly given and supported them greatly as a tax payer.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Jul 13, 2017 at 01:54:04 pm     #   1 person liked this

I concur on the ProMedica project, I am doing some work for them and am down there at least once a week. It is all finally coming together. I am anxious to go to the rooftop of the hotel and enjoy the views and a cocktail !

posted by Hoops on Jul 13, 2017 at 02:41:50 pm     #  

It's looking great. We took a long walk along the river this past weekend and the back of the Promedica headquarters is amazing. All glass, big improvement over that eyesore that's been there for years. I envy the people that have an office with the window in the back of that building.

posted by classylady on Jul 13, 2017 at 03:09:57 pm     #