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I wonder what type of power this joker uses to fire up his computer, lights, appliances, television etc. etc.

posted by radiohater on Jul 20, 2008 at 07:18:17 pm     #

OH GOD NOT ECONOMIC PROGRESS

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

posted by TheTalentedMrC on Jul 20, 2008 at 07:55:37 pm     #

I wish to hell it were wind or solar. Solar Fields, Q-cells, Xunlight, none have a market for their products with F.E., all they want to do is keep burning coal so you can suck in the fumes.
Notice they bought a coal mine? Maybe you can find work there.

posted by prime3end on Jul 20, 2008 at 07:56:25 pm     #

The only way it will become wind or solar is if people like you begin using it to power your homes, and show the rest of us that it's feasible and affordable. Until then shut off all your lights and anything that uses power as a protest against the "man". LOL

posted by radiohater on Jul 20, 2008 at 08:27:54 pm     #

For a city that's dying faster than my wife's grandfather, I would think ANY kind of influx of jobs would be a welcome one.

Sorry, folks. We don't want YOUR KIND 'round here.

posted by TheTalentedMrC on Jul 20, 2008 at 09:21:20 pm     #

Prime is the type of Liberal that will likely lost the Presidential election for Obama. These energy extremists that completely throw out economic success and stability for pie-in-the-sky ideas of alternative energy are not very popular with the citizenry right now (just look at the polls about drilling). To oppose an intermodal facility that would employ thousands leading to better lives for even more thousands of people because of increased traffic is laughable. There's only one word to describe it: extremist.

posted by HeyHey on Jul 20, 2008 at 10:02:57 pm     #

Radiohater, how the heck am I supposed to install wind turbines across the shallows of Lake Erie? THAT'S WHAT THE UTILITY COMPANY SHOULD BE DOING. We can only use the power that the utility companies send us.

Try putting up a wind turbine on your property. I dare you. There's no way the city would let you erect a tower of necessary height (since wind strength goes up generally as a square of tower height). Czarty would send a wrecking crew out there within days to take down your tower.

And solar? HAR! Solar power is outrageously expensive, by design. The Powers That Be work tirelessly to make sure your alternatives are poorly performing, and controlled by fellow corporations at any rate. It's sad to think that copper piping over tarpaper is much better performing for utilizing solar power than electric-conversion "solutions" available from these frankly corrupt corporations.

The sad truth is that the "public" electric utility is completely out of public control. They will ONLY do what makes them the most money, and that means using NG and coal to generate. Note that NG takes away from winter stocks (hence driving up price), and coal is polluting (hence incurring healthcare costs). The end product of this overdrive of profit motive is increased costs for society just so that a tiny minority can gather all the profits.

I have no problem with Intermodal and all that crap. What I do have a problem with, is an electric company that will NOT prepare for a future of fuel scarcity.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 21, 2008 at 05:27:41 am     #

Wind props sprouting in Lake Erie, sandwiched between nuclear power plants. We'd look like bigger idiots than we already are.

Once again, the Spring 2007 France story :

Nearly 80 percent of [France's] electricity comes from 58 nuclear power plants, crammed into a country the size of Texas. Because nuclear plants emit no greenhouse gases, France has the cleanest air in the industrialized world, and because the price of oil is now around $60 a barrel, it has the lowest electric bills in Europe. In fact, France has so much cheap electricity, it exports it to its European neighbors. French nuclear plants supply power to parts of Germany, Italy and help light the city of London.

And three September 2007 Economist stories about nuclear power :

• Nuclear power's new age :

Some environmentalists retain their antipathy to [nuclear power], but green gurus such as James Lovelock, Stewart Brand and Patrick Moore have changed their minds and embraced it. Public opinion, confused about how best to save the planet, seems to be coming round. A recent British poll showed 30% of the population against nuclear power, compared with 60% three years ago. An American poll in March this year showed 50% in favour of expanding nuclear power, up from 44% in 2001.

• Nuclear dawn :

Around the world, 31 reactors are under construction and many more are in the planning stages. Some of the most ambitious programmes are under way in developing countries. Both China and India are building several reactors and intend to increase their nuclear-generating capacity several times over in the next 15 years. Some countries, such as Turkey and Vietnam, are considering starting nuclear-power programmes, and others, including Argentina and South Africa, plan to expand their existing ones. Construction of a new one in Finland, western Europe's first for 15 years, began in 2005; work is just starting on another of the same design in France. Other European countries that had frozen or decided to scrap their nuclear programmes are rethinking their plans.

• Atomic renaissance :

OVER the next few months America's Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) expects to receive 12 applications to build new nuclear-power reactors at seven different sites. It is preparing to see plans for another 15 at 11 more locations next year. These will be the first full applications to build new nuclear plants in America for 30 years. If they are all successful, the number of reactors in the country will increase by roughly a third.

posted by jr on Jul 21, 2008 at 09:21:38 am     #

I don't even think prime is from our area. I think he might be one of those activist bloggers that get paid to do nothing but post their propaganda and talking points on public blogs and forums all day long. He's probably some college goof and never worked a real hard day in his life. Real productive folk.

Oh well. At least he has a passion about something so whatever makes you happy dude.

posted by FatBabe44 on Jul 21, 2008 at 12:36:27 pm     #

Well, Jr, I never demonized nuclear and never will. I hardly mention it for several reasons:

1. The Liberals go batshit fucking insane when nuclear energy is mentioned. I don't see any compromise with them about it.

2. Wind turbines are excellent with scalability. You can put in as many or as few as you want, in your infrastructure budget. This is in huge contrast to the common nuke plant, which probably runs $2B.

True, nuclear redesigns are promising and they should be given due credit and the opportunity to prove themselves. However, refer to point #1. The Liberals will never allow them. Applications are one thing; approvals are yet another; and the string of NIMBY and environmentalist lawsuits are yet yet-another thing to withstand.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 21, 2008 at 03:38:02 pm     #

I'm not a liberal, just also don't believe that we should subsidize capitalism, in case you all haven't noticed, that's called socialism, or more correctly fascism. If you need proof that First Energy has no business running a nuke reactor just check the record, almost took out the region on two occasions. The subsidies to nukes and coal already top two trillion dollars and climbing. If something goes wrong, they are primarly insured by you the taxpayer. The coverage?, well I'm afraid its the Katrina **** Us All plan.

posted by prime3end on Jul 21, 2008 at 06:11:41 pm     #

The problem with these dirty coal centered port authority buckets of shit, is that they will guarantee that Toledo never rises out of the ashes to be the really fine place that its people and lakefront location would easily grant. My concern is not about whether polar bears survive, but the fact that their shrinking icy habitat means a ****** up world for your children. I give a damn that the frogs have both sex organs from farm runoff, but that the implications of estrogen mimics will mess up our kids and increase their cancer rates. I could give a damn that they dredge the mouth of the river, but they are dumping the toxic dredge material onto the walleye beds in the most productive fishery in the great lakes. Yes open lake dumping so that the port can flourish.

I say again the port authority should be dissolved, sent to a socialist or fascist country where they would feel at home. Throw in some free wheeling lobbyist girls and they would relocate willingly ?

posted by prime3end on Jul 21, 2008 at 06:19:34 pm     #

Good point prime. Sure is funny how those that rail on about "socialized medicine" are fine with socialized energy.

posted by pink_slip on Jul 21, 2008 at 08:45:34 pm     #

Yes pink_slip, and alternatives and efficiency are getting near zero subsidies by comparison. In most states they don't even have a reasonable hope of selling wind or solar power on the grid, because the utilities own the grid, and jack the prices up so high that:

1. there can be little or no competition from solar and wind power, even though wind is cheaper now than all the new plants they cry about building, and solar soon will be. The grid owners price them out. Is that competition?

2. even other utility co's can't compete in F.E.'s(for example) home energy area because they have to compete against that phony killowatt hour charge on your bill, not the actual amount you pay per killowatt hour. Your bill says 5.6 cents per kwh, but when you add in all the bullshit charges its 11.9 cents,,, and they have a sure thing rate increase coming too. In Ohio at least 30% of the states electric bill goes to pay for 3 nuke plants, they have such a high maint rate, that the costs they charge us must reflect the constant rebuilding that is required to keep them from wiping out a few counties. A good friend of mine was a nuke engineer, he specialized in the artificial(quick) aging that takes place on components in a reactor with radiation, heating and cooling cycles, corrosion, etc. He quit because he said they didn't give a damn. Anyway, we are paying a premium for reactors, they are the most costly electricity source that anyone could possibly dream up.

3. If you install a solar or wind energy device at your home or farm, you will get about 2 cents per kwh that you sell back to the grid. No incentive to do anything green because your payoff on your system is longer because you don't get a fair price for the juice you put back into the grid. Having worked in the field I can tell you that 1 kwh of electricity has on many occasions been sold by one utility to another for a cost that would blow your mind,a $100.00 or more, yet home generation of power gets you only 2 cents.

This is why Gore is pushing for a new national grid, owned by us, not the utilities. Then you'd get a fair buck for the juice you produce, alternative energy companies and homeowners would benefit, mostly from the coming solar that experts say will cost far less than what we pay utility companies.

posted by prime3end on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:03:12 pm     #

Fathead,

I worked all my life starting at age 12. Have lived in Toledo for nearly 60 years. Youre the only one whose a talking head regurgitator of propaganda. In fact your party is receiving world acclaim for being fascist propagandists.

Jr, two nuke plants were just priced out in Florida and the numbers from the utilities themselves show that it will cost $4000 to $8000 per kwh to build the plants. Compare that to wind power at $1500 per kwh and solar at $4000. The newest solar will be closer to $1500 per kwh of capacity. So it isn't liberal bias guestzero. The real protest to nukes is simple cost, its too damn expensive!!!
The new Amp Ohio numbers are coming in at 3 billion for a coal fired power plant. Wind is cheaper now, within 3 years solar will be as cheap as wind, and neither will destroy your childrens planet.

posted by prime3end on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:19:30 pm     #

Prime, if by your standards FE can't run Davis Besse, then they are free to sell it to a contractor who CAN run it, right?

As for the Port Authority, I never figured out their function except to give fairly high and continuing salaries to grey-templed men who have lived a life of privilege. Their failure to attain any rational goal is only tolerated since Toledoans have no minerals for attacking a big problem and solving it.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 22, 2008 at 05:22:20 am     #

And Prime, with our nation's rubber-stamping PUCOs, the utilities have no incentive to economize. Why should they, when their rates will be covered anyway?

Wind turbines are an obvious solution, but the utilities are strongly resisting them. Why? I still can't figure that out. As a utility, you'd think you'd WANT a highly scalable and dispersed solution, since peak demand is your demon.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 22, 2008 at 05:26:35 am     #

"The real protest to nukes is simple cost, its too damn expensive!!!"

And how did France manage to build 58 nuclear power plants? And how does France have "the lowest electric bills in Europe" ? I doubt France waited until this decade to build its nuclear power plants. And how many wind turbines will be needed to meet the continually growing U.S. electricity demand?

posted by jr on Jul 22, 2008 at 06:30:12 am     #

prime said: Fathead,

I worked all my life starting at age 12. Have lived in Toledo for nearly 60 years. Youre the only one whose a talking head regurgitator of propaganda. In fact your party is receiving world acclaim for being fascist propagandists.
Uh, You created propaganda here pal. All you do is spew your environmentalist, conspiracy theory ramblings copied and pasted from various special interest talking points bulletins.

My party? Libertarian Fascist? Check out my profile. You might go against your grain of stereotyping (a liberal trait) and learn something.

posted by FatBabe44 on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:10:10 am     #

GuestZero,

They are resisting wind I think because they don't want to do anything to promote it. They see that installing it will prompt others to do so, especially municipal power comapanies like in B.G. Also remember, First Energy owns at least one coal mine, and probably has very long term contracts that force them to buy coal for the next 20 or 30 years. Also consider that the alternative to continuing to run their coal plants is shutting them down or selling them. Nobody wants to buy them, they tried. So if they shut them down, they have to spend money on new wind turbines to get away from coal. But their biggest worry is that others will notice that wind power is cheaper than what Toledoans pay right now.

Jr,
France's nuke plants are very tightly controlled by the government in terms of safety. I don't know how they have the "cheapest" electric bills in Europe, but they import coal and probably pay a lot for it. Their nuke record is the best in the world I heard, but they were implicated along with US companies in an Italian probe of dumping nuke waste into the Mediterranean Sea.
Long term storage of nuke waste means armed guards and heavy weapons defending the waste site for the next quarter million years or so.. very expensive.

posted by prime3end on Jul 22, 2008 at 08:42:33 pm     #

Fatfool,

None of your posts seem to reflect your profile, except criticising any American who dares to speak out. I consider you to be a poor citizen in that regard. If my dog's intellect was as poor as yours I'm afraid I'd have to give him away.

posted by prime3end on Jul 22, 2008 at 08:46:51 pm     #

LOL! "...any American who dares speak out"? Wow, I better get busy then.
If you can't take criticism of your ideas what does that say about you?

Hypocrite.

posted by FatBabe44 on Jul 23, 2008 at 10:29:19 am     #

If you can't take criticism of your ideas what does that say about you?

Fat---I read your comments, and you did not criticize Prime's ideas at all. You only criticized him. There's a difference.

posted by pink_slip on Jul 23, 2008 at 10:35:56 am     #

You're right. I did. I'm sorry for being such a troll Prime. It must be my time of the month coming. Sometimes I can be such a bee-otch. I apologize for insulting you and to everyone else here on TT.

posted by FatBabe44 on Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24:17 pm     #

All of ya...look up www.RXresearch.com and go over the many ways to get "free"energy, even 100 mpg cars" or 15-18 mpg diesel trucks...all lost or out dated patent ideas

posted by blacjac687 on Jul 23, 2008 at 10:08:24 pm     #

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