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Thanks for the hassle toledo parks board member

I had written close to a book about this because I'm p.o.'ed, but I'll keep it short and respond to the follow up posts.

The Joe e Brown park is not located in the best neighborhood. I've personally seen used condoms, broken glass, liquor bottles, etc in the children's playground there. Everytime I'm there, at events such as baseball, cookouts, little league, football practice, and soccer, I've seen vehicles parked on the grass because the only authorized parking is about 1/4 mile away from everything but the one ball field. Today in that same parking lot was not one, but two large pieces of shattered glass. They looked like automobile side windows. From the tennis court, you can't even see the parking lot.

I have been using the tennis court for the Toledo Street Hockey league for over 2 months. I'm trying to start a "Sticks and skates for kids" program to supply kids that can't afford or get equipment, to get loaner equipment to play. I have over 100 players in the league.
Due to the equipment, many players drive right to the tennis court and park. I have two 50 pound nets, first aid kit, paperwork for scoring and teams, water cooler for players, etc, I park next to the court too. If you go there right now, there is no damage from our cars, no tire tracks, no damage at all from our parking. We are only there Sat and Sunday.

Today some power hungry "park board member" showed up to hassle us. He was in jeans, but had a cute little nametag on. He informed me that he recently had a meeting and that all board members were driving around on Saturday to report anyone parking on the grass in the parks due to damage from vehicles. I asked him if he could show me any damage that our vehicles caused, but he declined. I asked him if he would leave his car unattended and out of view in that neighborhood, and he said "no". I told him that I was personally responsible for any damage that our cars would cause, but he said, "no". He called the police and when the policeman arrived, he told me that he would ticket any car parked there.

When I first found that abandon tennis court, it no longer had a net and had no real use. We got permission and removed the posts on our own. We pick up our trash and either put it into the only trash can in the park, or bag it and leave it next the to can in the park. We purchased paint and painted the lines on the court. We have made that court and park better than when we found it.

So I ask, why are we being hassled? If told before by a park representative that the reason they don't put a basketball hoop in the park is because it will bring too much "questionable" activity, why hassle the group making the place better?

I guess that saving the "so-called" grass from unknown or unproven damage is more important than cleaning up the broken glass, condoms, or preventing other illegal activity that goes on there at other times. I'd like to see Mr. Board Member show up there after dark and try to tell people about his rules and policies.

created by hockeyfan on Jul 26, 2008 at 06:28:00 pm     Comments: 15

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Comments ... #

I am also part of this league and work with the Stick and Skates for Kids and would like to share my experience as well. When I was there helping paint those courts (covering the foul words painted on the court) there were about five children out there trying to climb the fence that surrounds the court. The language that these children used was horrible. I engaged them in conversation and we talked about the language. Do you know I paid attention to them and they followed us the whole time seeking time from someone? This was the first indication that there was a need for a program that involved these children. Since that time I have talked to soooo many kids from the ages of 3 to teens and have got them involved in doing something beside gang banging and drugs. These children are sent to the park by themselves. If they express an interest we get them out there and playing.

A couple weeks ago we we out there practicing and some of the guys had thier personal items on the picnic table not too far from where they were playing. There were about ten guys, me (female), and my daughter 10 there. The guys were in behind the fence playing and two kids rode up on their bikes. Went over to the table and attempted to steal a wallet. I intervened until the guys came out and chased them away.

I have watched grown men urinate in the play ground where the children play. I have watch a group of eight children beat a duck that they had in a carrier until we intervened and saved the duck. I personally, go around the area we use and pick up trash. Not only from the guys but also from others. I have given children water that are dying of thirst but have been told to stay at the park.

We have made a difference in the lives of these children and we have also made a difference in the neighborhood. The grass is fine and still full of glass and used condoms but at least the Daniel Freiheit (Board memeber) came out to scold us for ???? Excellent !

posted by missv on Jul 26, 2008 at 06:50:59 pm     #



It sounds like Mr Freiheit is more of a BORED member. Who's he keeping up appearances for, anyway?

posted by GuestZero on Jul 26, 2008 at 09:10:00 pm     #



Sorry to hear that.

I'm not too familiar with Joe E Brown park, but what you described sounds a lot like what I've encountered at City Park. It has gotten to the point where I won't even take my kids to watch my husband's softball games there anymore.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen children almost get hit by cars flying through the grass there. (There's some sort of area behind the softball fields at City Park that seems to be used for some sort of activities for high school aged kids. They drive through a somewhat narrow grassy area next to the softball fields to get back there, and speed out of there like a bunch of jackasses...not even paying attention to adults and children standing/walking/playing in the grassy area. More than once I've seen kids have to dive out of the way of those cars...drivers talking and joking with the carload of teenagers, radio blaring, etc.)

Seems like if cars speeding through the grass and nearly hitting children on a regular basis is acceptable at City Park, it shouldn't be such a big issue for you guys to merely park at Joe E Brown!

(Like I said...I feel like its such a safety hazard at City Park that I refuse to take my kids there. Which disappoints them, because they love to watch their dad play softball. But its just not safe there. I feel bad for families with children who don't have reasonable access to play in another park.)

posted by mom2 on Jul 26, 2008 at 09:11:34 pm     #



If you want mom2, email me and I'll give you Mr. Fartnut, errr, Freiheit's number and you can call him to direct him to where he is needed. Funny, he's out to stop us parking on the grass, but nothing is being done where others are "racing" through the grass.

If I saw any of our players driving like that, I would personally tell them about it and do all I could to stop it. I can't write a ticket, but I could suspend them from playing for ruining it for the rest of us.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 26, 2008 at 09:48:02 pm     #



Have you been to Wilson Park?
I think the hockey court there just needs side boards.

posted by charlatan on Jul 27, 2008 at 10:14:15 am     #



Welcome to the wonderful world of Toledo politics!

Even at the park board level the self important bureaucrats do nothing to stop the real problems that the park visitors face, but hassle people who are actually trying to DO something with the local kids... How typical!!

Mr Park Board member - Why not do something about the REASON people don't want to park their cars out of eyesight in that park??? Nah - that'd be too hard, better just give some shit to some non-threatening looking people out there playing hockey and then you can go home and pat yourself on your pompous little back and convince yourself you're 'makin' a difference'!!

Perhaps the Div. of Parks and Forestry could use an email or phone call?

http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/Departments/PublicService/DivisionofParksandForestry/tabid/314/Default.aspx

That being said, we still need to be our own best friend and self protector...

Missy, I hope someone had a serious heart to heart with whomever thought it was the thing to do to leave their WALLET on a picnic table in THAT park and walk away from it?

Even if you had your stuff within eyesight, all those thugs need to get your property is to watch till you look away for a split seconod, and a head start...

posted by billy on Jul 27, 2008 at 12:57:47 pm     #



Welcome to the wonderful world of Toledo politics!

Even at the park board level the self important bureaucrats do nothing to stop the real problems that the park visitors face, but hassle people who are actually trying to DO something with the local kids... How typical!!

Mr Park Board member - Why not do something about the REASON people don't want to park their cars out of eyesight in that park??? Nah - that'd be too hard, better just give some shit to some non-threatening looking people out there playing hockey and then you can go home and pat yourself on your pompous little back and convince yourself you're 'makin' a difference'!!

Perhaps the Div. of Parks and Forestry could use an email or phone call?

http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/Departments/PublicService/DivisionofParksandForestry/tabid/314/Default.aspx

That being said, we still need to be our own best friend and self protector...

Missy, I hope someone had a serious heart to heart with whomever thought it was the thing to do to leave their WALLET on a picnic table in THAT park and walk away from it?

Even if you had your stuff within eyesight, all those thugs need to get your property is to watch till you look away for a split seconod, and a head start...

posted by billy on Jul 27, 2008 at 01:05:58 pm     #



Anyone old enough to remeber "a cop on every street corner" ? He was a cop and he was a bully, and if you messed up he'd kick your ass, and if he blew his whistle, a dozen cops would be kicking your ass. Is there another way? Would like to hear suggestions as the problem here seems to be more the crime than the park board member.

posted by prime3end on Jul 27, 2008 at 02:27:26 pm     #



Seriously? This thread is a hoot. There are laws and restrictions in place for a reason. Sure, I understand your point, but how can you expect enforcememnt to "look the other way" just because you are there for good and not evil? Sure, thoraing trash all about is illegal, but do you think they just look away when they se someone tossing a condom to the ground? NO! Because nobody does that in broad daylight. Lets not resort to selective ticketing please. Do you in all honesty think that someone goes home and pats themselves on the back for writing a ticket for parking on the grass? You can't have it both ways. That is great you are trying to help inner city kids, but set an example. If you were at a "nice park" having a picnic and people were parking their nice cars all over you certainly would have no problem with them getting a ticket.

posted by Ryan on Jul 27, 2008 at 05:59:49 pm     #



Ryan,
No one has those expectations and I think it is rather simplistic of you to take just that from the posts. I think that we do set an example however, you can not pick and choose who you punish for a crime. If we are going to enforce then you must to do for all and not just those that you choose to. Rules are rules which is why we followed them and paid the city for a permit and did it all on the books. I can see you do not frequent Joey Brown Park! The people that have had their picnics while we were there not only park their cars right on the grass next to the tables but also brought their forty ounces and weed and left every ounce of trash right where they were. I suppose that is not the type of picnic you are speaking of.

And your condom statement...I have seen grown men whip out their business (in broad daylight) and urinate. Right in the playground where his own children were playing. So when you make your statements you should be sure that you know what you are talking about.

posted by missv on Jul 27, 2008 at 07:18:34 pm     #



Not a hoot. I'm not looking for any special privilege, just for them to work with us. It's really pretty simple. Make a simple access to the area next to the court. It is not entirely safe to park over 1/4 mile away and not see our vehicles. Also, the equipment involved for our hockey is kind of heavy and bulky to have to carry that far. We found a use for an abandoned tennis court. The Woodrow Wilson park has very little parking and that particular court is too small. We started out trying to play there. If the baseball field was as far away from the parking lot as the tennis court, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't get used either.

This isn't a bunch of kids "turfing" the grass. It is adult supervised, organized league just looking to have a convenient place to play. It's not like we're running through Wildwood park demanding that we get to park on the grass. That part of the park is used very little, if at all. If the entire area from Oakland Avenue to the tennis court was made into a parking lot, not one person would complain and we'd have a place to park closeby where we could at least keep an eye on our cars.
I know it takes money to make a parking lot, but we'd be happy with stone. Wouldn't they be saving money from the reduction in grass cutting if it's a parking lot? A win-win situation is what I'm thinking.

The bottom line is this. No one uses that tennis court. The parks department doesn't even put a net up there. We want to use it for organized, adult run league games. We would prefer to drive up to the court for security reasons. It's not like TPD patrols that area often enough to keep our vehicles safe. Heck, thugs almost stole a wallet out of a duffle bag on a picnic table not 10 feet away. Just think what they'd do to our vehicles over a quarter of a mile away when we can't even see them. I would like to believe that something could be worked out. Simply sending out a rep. to make us move our cars was cold and narrow minded. I fear the alternative will be a reduction in participation due to the risks involved. I hope there is a solution good for both sides. That's all. I'm not looking for "park grass parking passes" for all parks. Just a little understanding.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 27, 2008 at 07:32:36 pm     #



I see your point. But hey I played in the league in the spring and to be honest was really surprised we were allowed to just drive up in the grass like that. Never been to any city park anywhere that has allowed this. Hopefully the city allows us to play at the Ottawa park rink next year and the parking issue will be resolved.

posted by transcom on Jul 28, 2008 at 08:22:26 am     #



This is a great contrast.

On the one hand you have hockeyfan and missv taking individual action to provide a socially beneficial service. That is, they are helping others on their own - they are not being forced to pay a tax to fund this charitable activity - instead, they are funding it themselves through their own time and money. It is the claim that people like hockeyfan and missv don't exist that is the justification for taxation for social programs. In other words, collectivists insist that people will not help each other, therefore, they must forcibly take money from people so that government can do the helping.

On the other hand, you have the board member and the policeman from the city government that are funded by money taken from people so that government can do the helping. And in both cases (the board member and the policeman) the only thing you get from your funding is the bureaucratic enforcement of dogma - NOT charity or social benefit. Neither of these government agents recognize the social benefit and work towards that goal. Instead, they are slaves to the bureaucracy that funds them.

This is the perfect illustration of why government is incapable of delivering social programs - because charity can only come from the individual. It is not possible to get charitable service from a government employee using someone else's money that was forcibly taken - charity only exists when a person willingly commits their own labor (or the fruits of it) to the people they themselves want to help.

In other words, charity can only come from the heart. Collectivism effectively tries to proxy the heart by simply taking the labor from people and then trying to extract the charity out of that labor. But the charity isn't in the labor - it is in the laborer's heart and that doesn't get taken with the labor - so the government isn't really getting the secret ingredient they need to truly deliver what the collectivist's promise.

What they end up with instead is board members and policemen - not charity.

posted by babbleman on Jul 28, 2008 at 10:07:06 am     #



And the really insidious thing about collectivism is that the more labor that is taken from individuals so that government can provide "charity" the less individuals are able to provide it themselves because now their labor is for the government's dysfuntional efforts. This, of course, makes the collectivist argument stronger - that individual's will not or can not help each other - thus justifying even more government "charity".

In this sense, collectivism is like cocaine - it has this strong allure to each generation that government is capable of channeling compassion - but while you are high on this illusion, it eats you up from the inside out.

posted by babbleman on Jul 28, 2008 at 02:02:25 pm     #



I also played in the league. I saw more than once a few teenagers on bikes eye up my car. My car was not even 20 feet away from the court and yet about 3 teens on bikes came up to my car and circled it looking into it to see what was inside.Its not like i have a car that is expensive its only a 93 jeep wrangler. What if i did park in the parking lot were there is no vision from the court to there. They could easily get in. Also when i did park in the parking lot before we parked in the grass i had two nails into my tires, both on different days.

posted by justphillips on Jul 29, 2008 at 10:05:58 pm     #