Toledo Talk

Pythian castle

So I was downtown today and I noticed that the roof of the pythian castle has completely caved in. I want to try to save the building because it won't last the winter without a roof. If I started a gofundme to save the building do you think I could raise enough money to get the roof rebuilt? Any ideas about maybe getting businesses to help out with that?

created by KenDur on Aug 05, 2016 at 11:16:26 pm     Comments: 56

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Pretty sure the land bank is involved with that property. It's been discussed in other threads. I'd hit them up directly. They are super engaged in the community... http://co.lucas.oh.us/index.aspx?nid=2063

posted by upso on Aug 06, 2016 at 12:09:25 am     #  

Yikes. I love that building. I hope it can be saved.

posted by JohnnyMac on Aug 06, 2016 at 09:47:24 am     #  

I would participate in efforts to save the building.

posted by holland on Aug 06, 2016 at 10:38:04 am     #   2 people liked this

holland posted at 10:38:04 AM on Aug 06, 2016:

I would participate in efforts to save the building.

Cool beans.

posted by KenDur on Aug 06, 2016 at 12:39:25 pm     #  

I just drove by and didn't notice any significant / new roof damage. Which side of the building did you notice the cave in?

posted by upso on Aug 06, 2016 at 01:59:08 pm     #   1 person liked this

Dave Balls dad told someone in my office Dave is buying it along with the Greyhound station across the street but didn't know what his plans were. I think it would be great for some unique residential units or a nightclub and could restaurants

posted by classylady on Aug 06, 2016 at 02:04:37 pm     #  

upso posted at 01:59:08 PM on Aug 06, 2016:

I just drove by and didn't notice any significant / new roof damage. Which side of the building did you notice the cave in?

If you look up from behind the greyhound station you can clearly see through the windows that whole roof is GONE

posted by KenDur on Aug 06, 2016 at 03:22:56 pm     #  

classylady posted at 02:04:37 PM on Aug 06, 2016:

Dave Balls dad told someone in my office Dave is buying it along with the Greyhound station across the street but didn't know what his plans were. I think it would be great for some unique residential units or a nightclub and could restaurants

Who is Dave Balls?

posted by KenDur on Aug 06, 2016 at 03:23:24 pm     #   2 people liked this

The For Sale sign on the old Greyhound Station has a "Sold" banner on it.

posted by Foodie on Aug 06, 2016 at 03:53:33 pm     #  

KenDur posted at 03:23:24 PM on Aug 06, 2016:
classylady posted at 02:04:37 PM on Aug 06, 2016:

Dave Balls dad told someone in my office Dave is buying it along with the Greyhound station across the street but didn't know what his plans were. I think it would be great for some unique residential units or a nightclub and could restaurants

Who is Dave Balls?

Local developer. I've heard Ball was buying it as well.

posted by upso on Aug 06, 2016 at 05:19:15 pm     #   1 person liked this

When the Land Bank took the pythian castle there were tens of thousands of dollars of back taxes due and boy did they have plans. Well you see how that turned out. It was in an LLC and we the citizens got nothing out of it. If they were going to take it, why wait till tens of thousands of dollars are owed in back taxes. This is going on all over the city and county. There are properties sitting with 10 years of backtaxes and nothing is done.

The rental people are getting rich, why pay taxes, just keep collecting that rent, let the property run down. Have it in an LLC and boom, now you are off the hook and youí ve collected all the rent. I even heard that they have taken property owed by an LLC for nothing letting the LLC off the hook and a partner has again gotten the property back from the land bank with no taxes due.

There are properties sitting in Toledo with 10 years property tax due, now if that person could pay, you know they are letting the place fall apart. So tens of thousands of dollars of back property tax due then they take it and by that time it is worthless.

Wake up people, those back taxes were money for the zoo, library, and everything else they keep wanting to raise, but no effort is put in to collecting the money due. They want you to believe you will make the tax revenue up when it is given away or sold. But that problem is that most are torn down and by the time anything good comes out of it, millions in tax revenue is lost that you have to make up by the ever increasing and new levies everyone wants.

Need a list of all properties now owned by the Land Bank and need a list of how much property taxes were written off since itís inception. This is news and I surprised why The Blade will not report on this. Why do the citizens of Toledo and Lucas County have to pay for others property because the officials in charge havenít a clue on how to collect. You have no accountability of checks and balances by this agency. I have no problem with this agency, I want to know how and why they are not even trying to collect back taxes before taking the properties and why these back taxes are forgiven. Must be similiar to the Toledo Municipal Court being owed $23 million dollars in unpaid criminal and traffic fines. And that was several years ago. Some of that money goes to the General Fund and operation of the court.

posted by Nyse on Aug 07, 2016 at 11:25:24 pm     #   2 people liked this

Wake up people, those back taxes were money for the zoo, library, and everything else they keep wanting to raise, but no effort is put in to collecting the money due.

Damn right.

It's Machiavellian theft, in reality. It's theft from me and every citizen who pays taxes on time and without fail to support all of these things. For the crappy school system in the city that I don't use but soaks up so much of my property taxes to water that I conserve like I live in the desert, but get billed like I'm the proprietor of Soak City.

I'm not naturally downbeat by nature, nor am I a conspiracy nut. But the overwhelming feeling I get inside and from being even half-conscious is that people who play by the rules and try to live good lives are seen as nothing but suckers by the slick who skirt the rules and walk away with money and power, all the while protected by politicians and lawyers who make excuses or rationalize how they or their clients' actions are somehow marginally legal.

But will local media publicly shame people on this list? Will anyone demand that fines be collected on time or penalties enforced? No. Not their job. How about inside the system? Nope, not their job either. Just keep asking for more from the asshole suckers who pay the bills and heap blame on THEM for not paying "their fair share." And wonder why they leave town...

posted by oldhometown on Aug 08, 2016 at 04:48:37 pm     #   2 people liked this

As far as the building goes, if the roof is shot (after how many decades of abandonment and a lot of hot air from local politicos about "saving" it), then I guess the largest freestanding homeless peeing station will have to come down.

A damn shame. And totally unnecessary.

posted by oldhometown on Aug 08, 2016 at 04:50:21 pm     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/Real-Estate/2016/11/21/Lucas-County-Land-Bank-sells-Pythian-Castle.html

Bought by David balls

Land bank gave him a 273k check to replace roof. Bought it for 300. Retail and residential planned.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Nov 21, 2016 at 08:58:11 pm     #   1 person liked this

yay

posted by upso on Nov 21, 2016 at 09:01:40 pm     #  

VERY cool.

posted by endcycle on Nov 22, 2016 at 11:01:17 am     #  

Set you timers, he has 3 years to complete this or else he owes the 273,000 back. Don't forget there were tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes owed on this property when it was taken. Why don't they foreclose and get our money? No, they won't - hey you want to give it to the land bank and you are off the hook. Ok, we shall give this a shot, but set your calendar for 3 years.

posted by Nyse on Nov 22, 2016 at 04:19:10 pm     #  

Foreclose and get what money? The recent history of that building's ownership is nothing but deaths and bankruptcies. It's great to say "go get the money they owe," but in a lot of situations (this one being a perfect example) it simply isn't there. There was no other alternative for this property, other than "tear it down." Which also costs money.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 22, 2016 at 04:30:58 pm     #   1 person liked this

I remember back in the 1950s and 1960s Bleckner's Music Store was on the main floor. They sold pianos, electronic organs and had a nice selection of sheet music.

posted by flinty on Nov 22, 2016 at 09:16:05 pm     #  

Looks like channel 24 was the only station to cover this story with video and still pictures. Looks to be quite a project . http://nbc24.com/news/local/landbank-developer-agree-to-deal-for-pythian-castle

posted by marving on Nov 23, 2016 at 07:26:11 am     #  

I hope the project is a success.

posted by classylady on Nov 23, 2016 at 01:05:07 pm     #  

The object of the law is to treat everyone fairly and not to make winners and losers. You can not decide to foreclose on Bill down the road after 3 years of not paying taxes and let Fred sit there with 10 years back taxes due. The Pythian Castle set there years with tens of thousands of back taxes due before people died and before any bankrupcy, people are watching and we have Aeries and we know how to use it and we are seeing that taxpayers are not be treated equally or fairly in Lucas County.

posted by Nyse on Nov 24, 2016 at 12:14:01 am     #  

But besides my complaint on how taxpayers are not be treated equally , someone did tell me they saw someone go into the building with a key yesterday and I saw someone go into today. So they are taking an interest in it and I certainly hope it gets revamped.

posted by Nyse on Nov 24, 2016 at 12:33:15 am     #  

I'm no lawyer, but from I've experienced, collecting against an estate is easier than collecting from a person. Why didn't the prosecutor's office file against the estate?

posted by MemyselfandI on Nov 24, 2016 at 05:10:44 pm     #  

Which estate?

posted by upso on Nov 24, 2016 at 08:51:47 pm     #  

Don't confuse home ownership with business ownership. If you personally get into a bind, yes, your house and everything you own (your estate) can be brought into play. That's not how business works, though. I don't know how they were set up, but I would have to imagine they were an LLC or similar. In that situation, they're personally protected from anything that happens with the business. It can go bankrupt, dissolve, etc, without their homes or personal possessions being targeted. So in this case, I really doubt there was any estate attached.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 24, 2016 at 09:27:30 pm     #  

Didn't Ball get some money from the city for the Steam plant and he basically did nothing with the property?

posted by AccountantDan on Nov 25, 2016 at 12:21:57 am     #  

I don't recall if the city gave Ball any money for the steam plant but I remember they gave it to him for free to develop and he didn't do anything with it and sold it to Promedica last year.

I'm sure if the city wouldn't have given it to him it would still be sitting empty.

posted by classylady on Nov 25, 2016 at 06:46:16 pm     #  

This was the big discussion today having coffee with friends, need to see the terms of the contract when the steam plant was turned over to him. Did he comply with the terms such as development within a certain period or are we owed money from this deal because the terms were not followed and he made out like a bandit. People are paying attention and watching.

posted by Nyse on Nov 25, 2016 at 08:44:01 pm     #  

Wasn't the pro ball player - who's name escapes me - also involved in this deal?

posted by Foodie on Nov 25, 2016 at 09:40:34 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 08:40:34 PM on Nov 25, 2016:

Wasn't the pro ball player - who's name escapes me - also involved in this deal?

Jimmy Jackson?

posted by mom2 on Nov 25, 2016 at 09:46:08 pm     #  

The basketball player Jimmy Jackson was involved in the steam plant deal. I remember him filing bankruptcy and I believe his house also got foreclosed on so he probably lost his share of it when he filed bankruptcy. I believe he ended up leaving Toledo after he got into financial trouble.

The city tried taking back the steam plant back when Finkbeiner was in office:
http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2007/04/12/City-of-Toledo-goes-to-court-over-stalled-steam-plant.html

I'm not sure what happened after that. Seeing Promedica is buying so much real estate and bringing jobs downtown the city would be fools to go after Ball if he is in violation of any agreements

posted by classylady on Nov 25, 2016 at 10:31:24 pm     #  

mom2 posted at 08:46:08 PM on Nov 25, 2016:
Foodie posted at 08:40:34 PM on Nov 25, 2016:

Wasn't the pro ball player - who's name escapes me - also involved in this deal?

Jimmy Jackson?

Yep - that's the one. Thanks mom2.

posted by Foodie on Nov 26, 2016 at 07:20:31 am     #  

Now there is a "For Lease" sign on the Greyhound station. What gives?

I always thought the presence of the bus station was an impediment to the development of the Pyrhian Castle? Now, Ball is trying to put a tenant in the bus station?

posted by JohnnyMac on Dec 15, 2016 at 10:15:47 am     #  

Yeah it's been mentioned that he intends some sort of retail in that space. I think the notion was having the busses (and people / vagrants) coming in and out was a deal breaker for the castle.

posted by upso on Dec 15, 2016 at 11:18:45 am     #  

Looks like work has begun, two sections of the structure around the tower have been removed.

posted by In_vin_veritas on Feb 11, 2017 at 03:52:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

what is happening with Pythian Castle? What are the plans for the place?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Feb 16, 2017 at 11:44:29 am     #  

I would assume mixed use residential and commercial?

posted by upso on Feb 16, 2017 at 12:58:35 pm     #  

Talking about mix-use - I saw where Spaghetti Warehouse is converting their top two levels to residential. Its on the planning commissions docket for March. Not sure if this was known or not.

TWDARC-6-17
Toledo Warehouse District review to renovate 2nd & 3rd floors into apartments at 42 S. Superior St
2/3/17 (submission of plan) 3/7/17 (hearing/review)

posted by Xbuckeyex on Feb 16, 2017 at 01:11:52 pm     #  

Link?

posted by Johio83 on Feb 16, 2017 at 01:33:22 pm     #  

No link. Just saw it on the Toledo planning commission docket:

http://toledo.oh.gov/media/3061/plan-commission-active-files-listing.pdf

Scroll down 3 pages. The last two items on the page show that they are reviewing the proposals for Commerce Paper project and project at 42 S. Superior (which is Spaghetti Warehouse) on 3/7/2017.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Feb 16, 2017 at 01:37:31 pm     #  

Hopefully they'll be investing in the restaurant as well.

posted by upso on Feb 16, 2017 at 02:04:29 pm     #  

The restaurant is a chain run out of the Dallas area.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 16, 2017 at 02:08:53 pm     #  

It almost seems like monthly there is another residential project. While I love seeing it - it is getting hard to believe there is this much demand. But lets hope the developers are correct! Would be great to see.

Now, I'd really love to see the city upgrade the streets, sidewalks and LIGHTING in all of downtown. Makes a big difference when I visit cities with thriving downtowns and its nicely lit up and gives the appearance of security.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Feb 16, 2017 at 02:16:03 pm     #  

"Now, I'd really love to see the city upgrade the streets, sidewalks and LIGHTING in all of downtown."

Actually, it would be nice if those things happened where needed in all 80 square miles of Toledo.

For the geographically-challenged, the city of Toledo is defined by more than several blocks of downtown, located on the west side of the river.

It's great that West Downtown is spruced up for visitors and downtown residents. We enjoy it as often as we can.

But it would be unfortunate if that activity was disproportionately funded by taxpayer money at the expense of the residents who live elsewhere in the city.

Facts show that many Toledoans are still resolving the city's problems with moving vans.

New homes continue to be built in the outlying communities. Toledo's population continues to decline by 1,000 to 2,000 residents each year.

When that trend reverses to where Toledo's population increases by 1,000 residents each year, for several years in a row, then in my opinion, that's when Toledo will have turned the corner for the better.

We could move two or three miles to the north into Michigan and reside in an allegedly safer community that has an allegedly better public school system, but only add about five minutes to our drive for work and entertainment in downtown Toledo.

But we like our West Toledo neighborhood, and we like living within walking distance of numerous businesses, located along Sylvania Ave. The threshold for saying, "The hell with this", has not been reached.

Unfortunately, some family and friends have moved out of Toledo and into the outlying areas over the past couple years. We tried to convince them otherwise. Schools and safety were their concerns.

I don't consider our part of Toledo unsafe. Yeah, stuff happens, like last fall with the rash of home robberies in our neighborhood, but Toledo police caught the troglodytes. It's not like we have hoppers working every corner.

Anyway, it would be nice if our city leaders occasionally remembered to explore lesser known areas of the city to remind themselves of who they are serving.

Bring back the Finkbeiner reality bus tours.

posted by jr on Feb 16, 2017 at 04:02:26 pm     #   6 people liked this

Now, I'd really love to see the city upgrade the streets, sidewalks and LIGHTING in all of downtown.

You do that and downtown Toledo will look like something out of The Twilight Zone. Think: Miles of buildings where the lights are on but nobody's home. Spooky. Scary even. Could drive a man to drink.

posted by madjack on Feb 16, 2017 at 04:07:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

I moved into Toledo. Go figure. In the vicinity of the Toledo Botanical Garden. 3,000 sq ft house on .75 acre for 127K. It did need a helluva lot of updating though. But we just couldn't beat the price for a home that sized with good bones.

posted by holland on Feb 16, 2017 at 07:31:10 pm     #   3 people liked this

Cockroaches have been residents of TSW for years now. I hope they like their new diggs.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Feb 17, 2017 at 04:50:57 pm     #  

So cool.

posted by upso on Feb 19, 2017 at 04:06:49 pm     #  

so it appears they opened the roof of the pythian to fit in some open web truss steel joists up in the attic. that is good news. they are not doing it half-assed.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Mar 03, 2017 at 11:03:50 am     #  

Figures. We've had such a mild winter, and once they start really opening up the roof for work, we get this past week of high winds and rain.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 03, 2017 at 11:12:45 am     #  

The main tower is leaning very badly right now. It appears the crane is attempting to remove it. I'm not sure this ends well.

posted by JohnnyMac on May 30, 2017 at 09:09:18 am     #  

The main tower is leaning very badly right now. It appears the crane is attempting to remove it. I'm not sure this ends well.

posted by JohnnyMac on May 30, 2017 at 09:09:20 am     #  

holland posted at 07:31:10 PM on Feb 16, 2017:

I moved into Toledo. Go figure. In the vicinity of the Toledo Botanical Garden. 3,000 sq ft house on .75 acre for 127K. It did need a helluva lot of updating though. But we just couldn't beat the price for a home that sized with good bones.

I'm contemplating moving into Toledo, now that my kids have decided to attend Catholic high schools. One of the main reasons we stayed in Sylvania was in case our kids wanted to attend a public high school.

Otherwise, we could get more home for less money by moving just a little east.

posted by mom2 on May 30, 2017 at 09:21:00 am     #  

Someone I know who was working on the Pythian Castle said he did not have further work due to the work being stopped due to a OSHA violation or at least that is what he said. Since the last I knew this guy lived at the mission which makes me wonder if they were paying these guys as employees and taking SS, workers comp and unemployment out of their check. If you are doing tear out work and they provide tools and set hours they are your employee.

When I looked up today of course the roof is gone and floors as you can see by driving by, but there were hanging and I mean hanging fluorescent light fixtures hanging some looked like they were hanging against the bare wood showing and they were on at 2.00PM in the afternoon and no one around. Is it wise to have electric on when the rain can just rain down on it and it isn't an outdoor fixture?

I would like to see this completed in the 3 years as stated when he got it from the land bank or our 273,000 he got for the roof from them returned if it isn't done.

posted by Nyse on Jul 09, 2017 at 03:56:28 pm     #