Toledo Talk

Lucas County Prison Location

I went to the meeting the other night at Reynolds Library. Kind of wishes I didn't. Now I just can't decide if I'm for or against the proposed location. Seems like both sides make a solid case. What are your thoughts?

created by AngieDackle on Aug 01, 2017 at 11:03:31 pm     Comments: 69

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I moved from that area a couple years ago and glad I did. That area went to hell fast and I took a huge loss on the sale of my old place and hate to think of what it would have sold for with a prison so close.

Why not tear down the section 8 housing on Cherry and the Greenbelt parkway and put it there? There isn't much residential and no schools there and it will be near the court house. If they put it in the south end it seems like it will be a pain to transport prisoners to the court house

posted by jamesteroh on Aug 02, 2017 at 12:21:53 am     #   2 people liked this

Then you have to build new Section 8 housing......where ?? They said the jail is being built with or without levy approval, only time will tell

posted by Hoops on Aug 02, 2017 at 07:34:14 am     #  

Classic Toledo/Lucas County tax strategy--
"This is what we're going to do and you're going to pay more taxes to do it. Sure, you can "vote" on it, but if you say no, we're just going to have to cut police/fire/EMS/school funding, etc. You don't want that, do you? That's all on YOU not US."

posted by JoeyGee on Aug 02, 2017 at 08:09:58 am     #   3 people liked this

Are they nuts? Because a large undeveloped parcel of land exists, the immediate area is low rent / moderate crime, and it borders a small industrial zone, the powers that be think it's okay to put a prison on said grounds?

Are they looking at the big picture. The spot at Airport and Angola is roughly one mile north of the crossgates neighborhood - a remaining bastion of prosperity within city limits. This home on S Beverly Drive (1.4 miles from the proposed prison site) is listed at $167,000 - well above the median city price. What do they think will happen to that neighborhood when a prison is built within walking distance? The neighborhood is barely hanging on as it is with Southland next door. Has city hall given up on South Toledo? How about locating a prison somewhere the loss in tax revenue (from dropping home values and fleeing citizens) might not be missed.

posted by mixman on Aug 02, 2017 at 09:33:24 am     #   3 people liked this

Complain all you want. Toledo/Lucas County will do as they please - and, all the sheeple will re-elect every damned one of them.

posted by Foodie on Aug 02, 2017 at 09:37:53 am     #   4 people liked this

Has city hall given up on South Toledo?

I'll take this one.

Fuck yes they have.

posted by justread on Aug 02, 2017 at 09:54:42 am     #   7 people liked this

City hall has given up on everything but city hall.

posted by JoeyGee on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:03:39 am     #   1 person liked this

Of course they announce this during the same news cycle that includes news of two inmates pretty much walking out of a Sandusky County prison and one inmate escaping deputies at the hospital.

That's either extreme stupidity, extreme impunity and arrogance or both. With local government it could be either or both. I don't know which is worse.

posted by JoeyGee on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:09:08 am     #  

Drive around the city's neighborhoods - it appears the city has given up on everything but downtown. Oh, possible exception - everywhere you find a new Promedica building.

posted by Foodie on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:35:11 am     #   5 people liked this

Mixman - Come on. Your attempt to bring in Crossgate as a viable reason not to build on Angola is laughable.

posted by Molsonator on Aug 02, 2017 at 12:17:22 pm     #   2 people liked this

Why not build the county jail at the end of the Greenbelt near Galena and E. Central right next to Toledo Correctional? Seems like an obvious spot for a jail. But it is Lucas County, they will do as they please.

posted by WestToledoan on Aug 02, 2017 at 12:22:09 pm     #   5 people liked this

Just put it at the field formerly known as southwyck.

posted by presbacon on Aug 02, 2017 at 12:54:41 pm     #   5 people liked this

presbacon posted at 12:54:41 PM on Aug 02, 2017:

Just put it at the field formerly known as southwyck.

If the current location (Airport/Angola) is wrong because of it's proximity to residential neighborhoods (it is), than Southwyck is worse x10.

Just put the damn thing out by the airport, lots of land, no neighborhoods and be done with it.

posted by SensorG on Aug 02, 2017 at 01:02:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

Probably the answer to the question of the jail's location is:
Who was the prior owner of the proposed jail location property and who/what is their connection to one of the high muckety-mucks on the commission?

Current county commissioners make Sandy Isenberg look like a 7 year old Shirley Temple.

posted by Foodie on Aug 02, 2017 at 01:49:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

Have they released the exact address of the jail? I wanted to see who owned it on AERIS and the value but can't find an exact address. Have they released a purchase price yet?

posted by classylady on Aug 02, 2017 at 01:59:06 pm     #  

It's pointless now to bitch to county officials because they are set in their plans. The jail will be built, but it requires approval from Toledo city council. Concerned citizens should direct their attention to city government.


Constructing and operating the new jail will cost $145 million.

Renovating the existing downtown jail will cost at least $60 million.

[Officials] added the Angola Road site was the best choice in terms of price, space, and the ability to construct buffers between the jail and the neighborhoods.


Lucas County officials have already bought or are close to buying the land to build the new jail.

County officials announced a $357,025 purchase agreement for three parcels on Angola Road, just west of South Byrne Road.


Last month, the commissioners approved placing a new county property tax levy on this November's ballot to fund the new jail.

... a 1.9-mill countywide property tax levy on the Nov. 7 ballot to pay for a new county jail and fund criminal justice operations.


If Lucas County voters reject the new property tax, then county officials will divert funds from elsewhere.

Mr. Gerken told those in attendance that if the levy fails, the jail will still be built, funded with money from a 0.25-percent sales tax approved in 1992 for public safety expenses. That funding currently helps pay for the EMS operations across Lucas County.

“For 25 years we’ve helped the city of Toledo, Sylvania, Oregon, Maumee pay for their EMS systems,” Mr. Gerken said. “We won’t be able to do that.”


Extortion?

If the new levy fails, communities, including Toledo, would have to invent new revenue generating schemes to account for the loss of money for their EMS services.

Or instead of stealing from its citizens, a community like Toledo could trim its budget in other areas.

But Toledo government does not want to deal with a loss of money. I'm guessing that Toledo officials will support the new jail and the new levy.

Toledo city council still holds some power on this issue. The land for the new proposed jail site must be rezoned by city council.

To build the jails on the site, county officials must get Toledo council approval for rezoning to limited industrial use, said Tom Gibbons, director of the Toledo Plan Commission. The 30 acres are currently zoned residential, but are being used for farmland.


I don't know when Toledo city council will decide to vote to rezone the land. Will that occur before the November election when six Toledo city council at-large seats are up for grabs?

Mr. Gibbons said council also would have to approve special-use permits to construct the jails.

County commissioners have yet to request the required zoning change and special-use permits from plan commission staff.

Mr. Gibbons said rezoning the property to limited industrial would conform to the suggested land use in the Toledo 20/​20 Comprehensive Plan.


Has the green wave secretly purchased the current downtown jail property? We could use an indoor roller coaster, approved by Opal.

posted by jr on Aug 02, 2017 at 02:48:09 pm     #   2 people liked this

classylady posted at 01:59:06 PM on Aug 02, 2017:

Have they released the exact address of the jail? I wanted to see who owned it on AERIS and the value but can't find an exact address. Have they released a purchase price yet?

They have released photos of the parcels which can easily be identified as:
2005141: 3636 Angola, 2005134: 3772 Angola, and 2005201: 3810 Angola. Three parcels. One single family residential and two agricultural land.

Yes. They have released the purchase price.

posted by justread on Aug 02, 2017 at 02:54:39 pm     #  

Major mistake not putting Promedica in charge of the project.

posted by Mariner on Aug 02, 2017 at 02:59:14 pm     #  

Where is Joseph P. Sheehy when we really need him?

posted by Mariner on Aug 02, 2017 at 03:02:36 pm     #  

My first question was related to transportation. Are they going to book the prisoners downtown, drive them out to Angola, then drive them back for court, and then drive them back to jail? I'm sorry but the jail should be near the courts. West Toledoen was right, a good location would be the old Cooks store site on Buckeye and Central. It's vacant, owned by the land bank, close to Downtown and the courts and across from the Prison so it fits with the neighborhood. They would have to buy out some of the houses still on the block, abandon 1 of the bypass streets to Buckeye, use the lot across Buckeye for parking and the site would be big enough.

posted by OldTimer on Aug 02, 2017 at 03:32:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

Molsonator, I disagree. Is the wedge of neighborhood north of Glendale between the metropark and southland part of crossgates? Swan Creek on Byrne Road is currently the dividing line between stable single family homes and the area north of the park, which I will politely refer to as somewhat sketchy. Five murders in the last few years?

If a prison gets built a mile from one of the city's most stable residential areas, will that be a detractor for families and people looking to live in an otherwise nice area? Why is it being built within ten miles of one of the nicer parts of town? If the stable wedge of neighborhood between the park and southland falls, how long will it take for the adjoining neighborhoods to follow suit? County officials are knocking over the first domino, and they could care less.

The people who picked this site are shortsighted and backwards for doing so. This part of town needs sprucing up, not giving up. The site is also a highly visible parcel. Tens of thousands of cars drive by daily. The daily car count at the nearby intersection of Airport & Byrne is huge. Is it really the best use for the land? Was it chosen simply because it was cheap and available? That's a not a good reason for choosing anything - I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere. WestToledoan suggested a logical place: next to the other jail. Why aren't they building it there? Put two land value sucking entities next door to each other. Much closer to the courthouse, too.

Everyone who cares enough find out who your respective councilman is and let them know this is a bad idea.

posted by mixman on Aug 02, 2017 at 09:31:44 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 01:02:50 PM on Aug 02, 2017:
presbacon posted at 12:54:41 PM on Aug 02, 2017:

Just put it at the field formerly known as southwyck.

If the current location (Airport/Angola) is wrong because of it's proximity to residential neighborhoods (it is), than Southwyck is worse x10.

Just put the damn thing out by the airport, lots of land, no neighborhoods and be done with it.

We live roughly a mile from the airport (as the crow flies, or the prisoner runs) so I have to respectfully disagree. We do have neighborhoods out here, they're just made up of bigger parcels, making it a nightmare to try and locate an escapee. The thought of one hiding somewhere in our 5 acres scares the daylights out of me. The cost of transporting to the courthouse wouldn't be feasible either. Y'all can keep your jails in Toledo. :D

posted by treesyjo on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:32:48 pm     #  

None of this makes ANY sense. I totally agree with folks that suggest we need to keep the prison closer to the courts and I live right next to the courts. I'm less concerned about criminals being near me and more concerned about the cost of logistics.

posted by upso on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:43:13 pm     #  

Unless they find a site that is close enough to the Toledo Municipal Court and the Lucas County Common Pleas Court to use a tunnel to transport inmates (like they do now), there will have to be the transport of inmates to the courts, or massive use of Skype-type technology. Once you are far enough away to load into a bus, the manpower for the Sherif is the same, it is only a question of time and miles.

For the attorneys who need to regularly visit clients at the jail, the further it is from downtown, the more of a pain in the ass it will be to practice criminal law.

posted by JohnnyMac on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:51:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'm surprised no one has brought up UT. With UTMC (the former Medical College of Ohio) being so close to the proposed site, they can't be too pleased about that.

posted by JoeyGee on Aug 02, 2017 at 10:53:42 pm     #  

treesyjo posted at 10:32:48 PM on Aug 02, 2017:
SensorG posted at 01:02:50 PM on Aug 02, 2017:
presbacon posted at 12:54:41 PM on Aug 02, 2017:

Just put it at the field formerly known as southwyck.

If the current location (Airport/Angola) is wrong because of it's proximity to residential neighborhoods (it is), than Southwyck is worse x10.

Just put the damn thing out by the airport, lots of land, no neighborhoods and be done with it.

We live roughly a mile from the airport (as the crow flies, or the prisoner runs) so I have to respectfully disagree. We do have neighborhoods out here, they're just made up of bigger parcels, making it a nightmare to try and locate an escapee. The thought of one hiding somewhere in our 5 acres scares the daylights out of me. The cost of transporting to the courthouse wouldn't be feasible either. Y'all can keep your jails in Toledo. :D

This is right. If they all escaped into Swanton wearing orange, it would just look like deer season.

Scarier thought: there are two kinds of criminals. The ones who got caught, and the ones who never did. The ones who never did could be in your 5 acres any day of the week. The percentage of criminals who are just naturally on the street on any given Tuesday vs. the percentage of convicts who escape from LCJ would be an incredibly lopsided ratio.

This is why the location is a perception issue. The problem is, perception is reality, especially when buying a home. When someone is buying a home, they want to move up. If being near a jail is a move up, that could be a problem for the stability of the neighborhood.

Now, work with me here. Where do they take the convicts for health care? That's where you have to worry. Because they won't be escaping from St. Vs and being found in 43610. They will be escaping from UTMC and being found in 43614.

posted by justread on Aug 03, 2017 at 05:54:03 am     #   1 person liked this

Previewing comment ...
In 2003 in the Toledo Blade article they paid 232,000 for a study about building a new jail downtown or next to Toledo prison. Sheriff Telb at the time said it should be next to the Toledo prison and again in 2013 he said the same. Toledo owns that land next to Toledo prison. His logic as stated in the article, no one wants it in their back yard.

In Dec 2014, the commissioner talked about raising the sales tax .25 percent and one of the things they said is it could pay for the new jail. In February 2015, they raised in .25 , In March 2015 in a Blade article, Gerken said, there will be no new taxes to pay for construction of a jail and also said we will work within the budget. Notice no talk of we will have to cut something to build it, because he just got the .25 sales tax increase.

Fast forward to 2017, we have to have a property tax increase, 30 years on the building fund of the levy and forever on the operational part of the levy to get a new jail, even though Gerken told folks the sales tax increase in 2015 would cover it and after he raised the sales tax, he told you a month later, no new taxes to build the jail and we will work within our budget.

Columbus, Detroit, Nashville and so many cities are building bigger prisons for much cheaper that are multi-level, our one minded commissioner will not look at this, we have to build one level so says the paid designers. Why not look back to 2003 and so many other Blade articles to see they wanted to tear down the jail or enlarge it right where it is or Toledo prison land. Why not call these cities building new jails downtown. Are they afraid they may learn something or the people will find out we are paying too much?

When people are released from the Lucas County jail they are put out with no money, home, or resources. They put them on the street. But downtown has the Cherry Street Mission for food and shelter also some Churches downtown for free lunch, the library gives sack lunches out for the poor, they have The Source for free fax, phone, job searches and they had classes for offenders to get jobs at one time. I could link to all the articles in the Blade over the years, but the links are all on the facebook page. Lucas county citizens against the neighborhood jail proposal

posted by Nyse on Aug 03, 2017 at 04:43:32 pm     #  

Are they going to book the prisoners downtown, drive them out to Angola, then drive them back for court, and then drive them back to jail? I'm sorry but the jail should be near the courts.

Courts can use video arraignment so there is really no need for them to haul the prisoners to court and take them back. Yes, the current courts are connected to the jail via tunnels, but that is really no longer necessary.

There really is no option to build near the courts - The federal courthouse is set to be expanded on its current site. (At one time, Toledo lost an employee parking lot to this expansion, as well as the Municipal Court Judges' parking garage - I don't know if these were resolved).

https://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/128826

One thing that I have not read about is whether or not the proposed new jail meet the requirements of the consent decree about the old jail (not the current jail, but the old jail that the current jail was built to replace). The current jail was in violation of this consent decree when it was built.

The facility has been under a federal consent decree since it opened in 1977 for its inability to provide appropriate conditions of confinement.

http://co.lucas.oh.us/DocumentCenter/View/44559

So will the new one deal with this issue?

posted by not_me on Aug 03, 2017 at 06:28:03 pm     #  

Is a prison really a NIMBY issue? I'd be totally fine with a prison being near my house. I don't know very many criminals that spend their free time hanging out near prisons.

posted by oriontank on Aug 04, 2017 at 09:23:16 am     #  

oriontank posted at 09:23:16 AM on Aug 04, 2017:

Is a prison really a NIMBY issue? I'd be totally fine with a prison being near my house. I don't know very many criminals that spend their free time hanging out near prisons.

This entire thread may be worth reading.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2017 at 09:36:01 am     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 09:36:01 AM on Aug 04, 2017:
oriontank posted at 09:23:16 AM on Aug 04, 2017:

Is a prison really a NIMBY issue? I'd be totally fine with a prison being near my house. I don't know very many criminals that spend their free time hanging out near prisons.

This entire thread may be worth reading.

I've read it all, and there are quite a few valid reasons presented for why this is a bad location. Of those reasons presented, the whole "This will be bad for the neighborhood" angle just doesn't hold water to me. I think the biggest issue is the absurd distance from downtown and I don't really see a need for the city to buy more land for this when they already own several other plots that would be sufficient.

posted by oriontank on Aug 04, 2017 at 09:41:49 am     #   1 person liked this

There is a difference between "it will be bad for the neighborhood" and "the perception of the preponderance of the people is that it will be bad for the neighborhood."

You may disagree with the former, but you ain't getting around the latter.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2017 at 10:05:24 am     #   1 person liked this

You're definitely right. Perception is reality. I just have a hard time relating to people who perceive living near a prison as a negative for their neighborhood.

posted by oriontank on Aug 04, 2017 at 10:11:57 am     #  

My major concern is as I stated above, they increased the sales tax .25 percent in 2015 to help pay for the jail. Gerken on record saying after that was pushed thru that there would be no new taxes to pay for the jail.

All the studies they have done since 2003 suggesting downtown or next to the prison. None one is even questioning the price. The commissioners speak or I should say Gerken and that is the law of the land and God knows he should not be questioned.

posted by Nyse on Aug 04, 2017 at 10:49:05 am     #  

@Orion I would be concerned more the property values. Even if the property owner has no issues with safety, etc. many potential buyers will which will have a bearing on the property values when they go to sell.

posted by classylady on Aug 04, 2017 at 01:24:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

This is absolutely a NIMBY issue. If location doesn't matter, why not put it at Dorr & Richards over by Ottawa Hills? I'm sure homeowners there won't mind. How about the edge of Sylvania next to one of those new subdivisions? They picked Airport & Angola because there is already a little blight and crime nearby, so by their logic this part of town becomes a justifiable dumping ground for convicts.

I think most people expect jails be placed where our current ones are: urban centers or out-of-the-way places... somewhere you aren't constantly reminded that hundreds of people who have committed heinous crimes dwell. The proposed site is a far too visable location. At least 20,000 motorists will see this every day from the Byrne road overpass. Try building a buffer high enough to hide it.

It's not only the potential for finding an escaped prisoner in your home that's cause for concern, but the building itself creates a bad aura. Some people simply don't want to be close to it. There are nearby homes on three sides of this property not just the 'fancy' ones a mile away. When people start moving out and taking their tax dollars with them, it's going to be that much harder to get the roads fixed. And everything else that needs fixing. City Hall will have to invent half a dozen new trash taxes, red light / speed cameras and other nonsensical evils to fill the gaps. The whole city should care about where this goes!

posted by mixman on Aug 04, 2017 at 06:20:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

I dare say that part of the reason they picked it because it was in the city of Toledo. It could have been located in a rural area easily - cheaper land, fewer neighbors to gripe, video arraignment would work from anywhere. But no way in h@!! are they going to move it somewhere that employees won't have to pay city income tax. Toledo city income tax.

posted by not_me on Aug 04, 2017 at 07:32:41 pm     #  

In view of the fact over 60% of TPS, police, fire employees live outside the corporate limits of the city every nickel counts as witnessed by the radar camera money generating scheme.

posted by Mariner on Aug 05, 2017 at 06:37:05 am     #   1 person liked this

jamesteroh posted at 12:21:53 AM on Aug 02, 2017:

I moved from that area a couple years ago and glad I did. That area went to hell fast and I took a huge loss on the sale of my old place and hate to think of what it would have sold for with a prison so close.

Why not tear down the section 8 housing on Cherry and the Greenbelt parkway and put it there? There isn't much residential and no schools there and it will be near the court house. If they put it in the south end it seems like it will be a pain to transport prisoners to the court house

Of course you want that Greenbelt scum removed from being too near your beloved bike route.

Where would you propose relocating the Greenbelt apartments?

There are several sites where the new jail could be built.

My top 6 sites:

1. Northtowne Mall

2. Southwyck

3. East Toledo's Ironville near the Port Authority

4. Libbey High School

5. North Toledo near the prison (Buckeye & Central).

6. Former Brand Whitlock Homes (although I believe HUD eventually is going to build on that entire site).

Paving over more farmland within a hollowed city such as Toledo is ignorant.

posted by 6th_Floor on Aug 05, 2017 at 11:56:21 am     #  

A letter to the Editor either yesterday or Thursday suggested the corner of LaGrante and the Greenbelt Pkwy. The letter brought up some good points and it would make sense.
of land at that corner, not many houses or business in the I'mediate area, easy access to the courts, etc.

If the city still holds the land at Southwyck that might be a good area and also agree with others about Buckeye & Central.

The idea of Libbey High school makes sense as well if TPS still owns the property. Wouldn't cost the tax payers anything in the end since we already own it, easy access to the courts and that neighborhood is so awful that a prison wouldn't hurt the home values.

posted by jamesteroh on Aug 05, 2017 at 09:13:38 pm     #  

I hope you're joking about Southwyck being a good spot.

I'm all for the Greenbelt Parkway location. About anywhere along that area. Seriously, though... why won't they put it next to the Toledo Correctional Institue? Is it a wetlands issue? Is putting two jails next to each other a no-no? I think it could be a useful deterrent. Like, if you screw up a little you go to the junior jail. If you screw up a lot, you go to the big house.

posted by mixman on Aug 06, 2017 at 09:15:30 am     #  

Construction is banned on the NE Corner of Dorr & Richards because it's a prehistoric site protected by the Ohio Historical Society.

Airport & Angola? For pity's sake, they don't intersect; they both run east and west.

posted by flinty on Aug 08, 2017 at 11:52:00 pm     #  

Oops! Angola begins at Airport a block west of Byrne Rd which has farmland in the area.

posted by flinty on Aug 08, 2017 at 11:57:48 pm     #  

Angola runs at an angle like Monroe street does.

That area tends to vote for property tax increases for some reason. Will be interesting to see if they support a tax increase for the jail if it will be built in their area.

posted by classylady on Aug 09, 2017 at 11:09:51 am     #  

No. Angola doesn't run at an angle.
Actually, if we are going to debate Angola Rd., it is much more east-west than Airport Highway, which actually bends north to meet the relatively straight Angola at approximately a 25 degree angle. If Airport Highway were actually a true east-west road, it would intersect Illinois Ave near the Andersons on its way east from Delta, OH. Instead, it continues northeast until it terminates north of Highland Park, at Western. Western then terminates a few blocks from the train station, a considerable distance north of where Airport begins.

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2017 at 11:18:12 am     #  

Angola runs at angle between airport and I believe Reynolds. Doesn't it run east-west for a little bit east of Byrne by Hill Avenue or am I thinking of South street?

posted by classylady on Aug 09, 2017 at 11:35:12 am     #  

Marco...Polo

posted by Mariner on Aug 09, 2017 at 11:36:53 am     #  

classylady posted at 11:35:12 AM on Aug 09, 2017:

Angola runs at angle between airport and I believe Reynolds. Doesn't it run east-west for a little bit east of Byrne by Hill Avenue or am I thinking of South street?

I don't know what you are thinking of, but it is pretty clear you are not looking at a map.

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2017 at 12:18:41 pm     #  

To clarify matters, Angola begins at Airport Hwy where it has a curve to the west (GPS 41.623449, -83.630468) behind the Sujkowski Funeral Home. Dear classy lady, I know many people say "South Street" but the maps show South Avenue.

posted by flinty on Aug 09, 2017 at 12:50:16 pm     #  

I love that there were 7 comments regarding an issue that can be solved in 5 seconds with Apple/Google Maps lol

posted by dell_diva on Aug 09, 2017 at 12:51:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6159017,-83.7049112,13z

posted by User436 on Aug 09, 2017 at 01:22:48 pm     #  

Dorr & Richards was a sarcastic suggestion supporting the NIMBY issue. Of course they're not going to build it near Ottawa Hills.

If you think Airport & Angola is a bad location, let your councilman know. Urge them to vote no on the rezoning!

Here is a better spot for the jail... 5371 Stickney. Big triangular property, railroads on two sides, borders industrial zone, zero high dollar single family residential nearby.
Why not this property county commissioners?

posted by mixman on Aug 09, 2017 at 01:56:26 pm     #  

Actuall Airport runs at a slight southwest angle. Here the North/South blocks where they intersect Airport:
Airport/Detroit 300
Byrne 1000
Reynolds 1300
Crissey 1900

posted by Trilby on Aug 09, 2017 at 03:29:08 pm     #  

Actuall Airport runs at a slight southwest angle. Here the North/South blocks where they intersect Airport:
Airport/Detroit 300
Byrne 1000
Reynolds 1300
Crissey 1900

posted by Trilby on Aug 09, 2017 at 03:29:12 pm     #  

My bad it is Airport that runs at a slight angle. I forgot that where Angola starts off airport curves and then runs straight west.

posted by classylady on Aug 09, 2017 at 04:38:32 pm     #  

If it becomes important the primary runway at KTOL is 7/25 70* and 250* depending on your approach and need. I doubt Jerkin and Jingle Hymer Schmidt and the other gal have put this much thought into all this.

posted by Mariner on Aug 09, 2017 at 06:53:12 pm     #  

If it becomes important the primary runway at KTOL is 7/25 70* and 250* depending on your approach and need. I doubt Jerkin and Jingle Hymer Schmidt and the other gal have put this much thought into all this.

posted by Mariner on Aug 09, 2017 at 06:53:38 pm     #  

This does explain why as a community, we suck at roundabouts.

posted by justread on Aug 10, 2017 at 06:26:35 am     #   1 person liked this

Appreciate your comment and although it doesn't erase my Hunter S. Thompson induced gonzo post it does suggest that your heart is in the right place. Along with a like button maybe we need one titled thoughtless.

posted by Mariner on Aug 10, 2017 at 07:45:31 am     #  

Just saw a "news flash" that the county commish's have backed off of the Angola Rd. location.

Pop some more corn.

posted by Foodie on Aug 16, 2017 at 03:52:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

Now to keep Gerken at his word, in 2015 while raising the sales tax .25 they said the money could go for a new jail, two months later he said there will be no new taxes for a jail and we will live within our budget, nothing about cutting anything. Why in 2017 do we need a levy with 30 year building fund and forever operational part of the levy? The whole mess has been one lie after another. I certainly hope we don't have to pay anything as they were in contract to buy that land, need to keep an eye on that. And if a levy is needed which i doubt, it needs to be a sales tax increase again. Most people in the jail I doubt own land, so why should property owners pay everything, a sales tax increase would hit people that don't own land.

posted by Nyse on Aug 16, 2017 at 04:42:50 pm     #  

Best news I've heard all day. Thank heavens it's going somewhere else.

posted by mixman on Aug 16, 2017 at 06:50:36 pm     #  

@Nyse: because everyone also lives somewhere. A property tax is a fairer way to distribute the burden because it spreads it more evenly across the accumulated wealth of a family - expressed in property - rather than what they consume. Property taxes tend to be progressive, and sales taxes regressive.

posted by swampprof on Aug 16, 2017 at 09:29:42 pm     #  

Accumulated wealth...expressed in property around here often means "expressed" using a negative number. I lost 50 grand in real estate over the past 10 years in Toledo. There's your "wealth."

Damn socialists. Get your eyes off my pie.

posted by justread on Aug 17, 2017 at 06:11:16 am     #   3 people liked this

Those who have been at the public teet for far too long and have enjoyed uninterrupted paychecks, health care, vacations are blissfully ignorant that the recession may have been declared over for most of the country is de facto remaining right here in river city. We were hit real hard here in NW Ohio and if they don't realize it we can help them share the pain come election day.

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2017 at 07:05:53 am     #   1 person liked this

Last month Gerken said we are moving forward no matter what.........................might want to think about it Petey !!

posted by Hoops on Aug 17, 2017 at 07:47:05 am     #  

"https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1163&bih=537&q=yosemite+sam&"

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2017 at 09:52:08 am     #  

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2017 at 09:55:02 am     #  

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2017 at 09:56:09 am     #