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Good Kid gone wrong?

What the heck is wrong with some people? I just watched the story on NBC 24 about the gas station attendant that got shot in the back of the head after he gave the robber all the money out of the cash register.

The part that boils my blood is that they interviewed the mother of the "alledged" shooter. She made statements such as, "He's a good kid, it's just that he hangs out with the wrong crowd." She goes on to say, "He's innocent, it's not his fault."

Who's fault is it? His buddies? The wrong crowd? An Ozzie Osbourne album? What happened with accountability and responsibility? They showed the video of the robbery and while they didn't show the actual shooting, I didn't see anyone holding a gun to the "alledged" shooter's head forcing him to do it.

I'm infuriated and it has nothing to do with white, black or any other race. It's about the crime of murder.

And if that doesn't fire you up, apparently, someone entered the store after the shooting and saw the clerk lying on the floor in a puddle of blood. They then stole some cigarettes and left without calling the cops or anyone.

Someone help me understand while I beating my head against the wall in frustration.

created by hockeyfan on Aug 14, 2008 at 05:12:24 pm     Comments: 29

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Comments ... #

There are alot of assholes out there, that is for sure.

posted by Ryan on Aug 14, 2008 at 08:02:44 pm     #



Sometimes, I can't help but think that one of the reasons the kid 'went bad' is having a mother like that! If the kid never does bad, then he hasn't learned the difference between right and wrong.

And the punk stealing the cigs? A sure indication the 'gene pool' needs more chlorine.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 14, 2008 at 09:59:10 pm     #



I agree HF, it's sickening. I understand when they asked the piece of shit why he killed him, he just shrugged his shoulders.
They should hand him a shovel, have him dig his own grave, look him in the eye, shrug, and shoot him in the head and be done with him.

Instead, we'll pay to house, clothe and feed him for the rest of his worthless life.

posted by JeepMaker on Aug 14, 2008 at 11:16:22 pm     #



Here's a newsflash mom...you're not a "good kid" if you shoot a guy in the head while in the process of committing armed robbery of a gas station. Especially if the guy wasn't putting up a fight. Especially if he had his back to you. Especially if you just shrug your shoulders and say "I don't know" when asked why you shot him.

No...you're not a "good kid," you're a worthless piece of crap.

(Same goes for the piece of garbage who saw the dead body and stole the cigarettes. I hope they can charge him with something more serious than just the theft!)

posted by mom2 on Aug 15, 2008 at 06:30:17 am     #



Ditto Mom2.

Fucking animals - both of em.

posted by billy on Aug 15, 2008 at 07:09:48 am     #



Both are punk hairballs, but not responding to the question was the 'smart' thing to do. I haven't looked into this dirtbags background, but I'll bet this isn't his first rodeo. He's smart enough to know to keep his mouth shut.

I'll repeat here what I posted on Glass City Jungle:

If you do some research, you'll find that execution: (1) is not a deterrent (current crime stats bear that out); (2) in the long run, costs more than life without parole and (3) innocent people have died by execution.

America is only one of the VERY few civilized nations that still practice capital punishment. I don't think that speaks well for being 'civilized'.

AND....

Ya know, we're all getting our panties in a bunch because of some hairball killing a clerk during a robbery.

While I'm not trying to minimize the offense, the fact is that day in and day out, it happens across the nation on a daily basis. It's happened before in Toledo, it's happened in Maumee, in Dayton, Tallahassee and in Los Angeles. Perpetrator does a robbery. Perpetrator shoots victim. Victim dies. Perp gets caught. It's only the fact that we've seen the video does it 'hit home' and sensationalized in the news that is causing the public uproar.

What doesn't happen every day is some punk assessing whether or not the guy laying behind the counter in a pool of blood is in a condition to give him a hard time if he grabs some smokes. Figuring the victim is no threat, he grabs some cigs and dashes off. Now, that's a 'class act'!

What I want to see is this guys 'jacket'. I'm too lazy to look up his criminal history, but I'm gonna bet he's not someone you'd want your sister to marry. You can bet that I'll be going into a high-speed wobble if I find out that our 'boys in blue' have done their jobs numerous times only to have the justice system slap his hands way too many times!

Could this have been prevented if Dugan had been carrying concealed? There have been MANY instances across the nation (even right here in Toledo) where an armed citizen prevented deadly force by legally carrying a concealed weapon. Citizens have to start taking responsibility for their own safety! How many of you have a fire extinguisher in your home or car? You're not 'expecting' a fire, but ready for it if it happens. I'm not 'expecting' some hairbag to twist a gun in my face and demand money, but I'm ready if it goes down. (And PLEASE Great Spirit, PLEASE don't ever put me in that situation!) You want to lower crime? Start taking some responsibility for your own and other's safety! Get the training and apply for a concealed carry permit!

(I'd also like to give a 'round of applause' to the Officer's that remembered the perp from a day or 2 previous! Great work, guys!)

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 15, 2008 at 07:31:52 am     #



Graph: I agree with much of what you post here and on other sites. We differ in our take on capital punishment.

Capital punishment does have a deterrent effect.

1) specific individual deterrence - that person will never victimize anyone else neither on the street or while in prison.

2) Because the potential offenders who are deterred by the threat of capital punishment DONT BECOME A STATISTIC the effect is hard if not impossible to measure, but it does exist.

3) For those fond of comparing evil America to our more enlightened neighbors in the world (an apples to starfish comparison I disagree with), the countries with the harshest punishments for crimes have the least amount of crime, death penalty or not.

The callousness of the cigarette stealer is a harsher testimony to our city and society then the killer. However both deserve the maximum, and if there is any chance the victim was alive when the cigarette thug ignored him - he should be charged with felony murder.

And I join in congratulating the officers who knew their beat, knew their jobs, and helped nab these dirtbags. There is no substitute for cops on the street, who know their area, and are proactive in traffic enforcement as a method to uncover other crimes.

TAHL

posted by TheAssHoleLawyer on Aug 15, 2008 at 07:47:16 am     #



AHL: Then we agree to disagree. Each can quote statistics to bolster our view, but it will still boil down to personal opinion.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 15, 2008 at 08:06:24 am     #



i don't think capital punishment has a deterrent effect, but i honestly have no problems with it in a case like this.

posted by jhostetler on Aug 15, 2008 at 08:07:42 am     #



I'd love to see some proof on the "death penalty costs more than life imprisonment" story. I've heard it before and I think it's BS.

There are two ways to look at the death penalty as far as deterrent effect. One, the deterrent effect is not as strong as it should be because of our ridiculous legal system. Even if there is no doubt as to guilt whatsoever, the criminal knows that it will be years before his execution. People tend to think more in the "now", they don't worry about years down the road.

Two; even if there IS no deterrent effect we know ONE thing. If joe scumbag kills someone, and we catch him and kill HIM, he'll never kill anyone again.

posted by JeepMaker on Aug 15, 2008 at 10:00:47 am     #



Murder isn't in the Bible is it?

I blame video games, especially Viva Pinata.

My nieces and I get into fisticuffs over that game as evidence by my black eyes.

posted by charlatan on Aug 15, 2008 at 11:14:52 am     #



charlatan, I know that humor is one way to defelct pain and usually I find your posts just teriffic, but I'm having a little problem with this one. There just isn't anything funny about any aspect of this case, even tangential. Here was a quiet guy, working responsibly in a not too galmorous job and some punks who don't want to be responsible, who don't want to put in the unglamorous hours it takes to make it in this society but instead choose to take all of this guys hard work in an instant with the pull of a trigger. There just isn't anything funny here. Like I said usually I love your tangential humor. But not today about this.

posted by holland on Aug 15, 2008 at 11:33:43 am     #



The "latest" report on Channel 13's website is that the guy who stole the smokes didn't see Dugan lying on the floor behind the counter (cough**BULL$HIT**cough) and it appears as if this guy was released from the Michigan Dept of Corrections less than 2 years ago for 2nd degree murder. I'll bet he's a good boy too.

posted by justsimplyholly on Aug 15, 2008 at 02:31:46 pm     #



Jeepmaker, I didn't believe it either when I heard the stats awhile back, then I started digging. Try Googling capital punishment, execution, costs of capital punishment, etc.

It was long ago and sorry I don't have the links bookmarked, but I do recall there were many sites.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 15, 2008 at 02:55:15 pm     #



I'm sure we'll hear that he's next in line for Sainthood!

Just like the hairball that pulled the trigger - just hanging around with the wrong bunch...he was innocent....he was framed...it was self-defense.....his father beat him when he was younger....he ate too many twinkies that morning (No, not THAT kind of twinkie - the snack food!)

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:00:33 pm     #



There's a poster out here who'll be quick to blame the TPS...

posted by billy on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:17:54 pm     #



Police yesterday arrested Mr. Belton, 22, of 934 Cuthbert Rd., and Dymon Bolton, 18, of 623 Ranch Drive.

These addresses are right around the corner from Downing Ave. where they found the young women who was being held as a sex slave. WOW...nice neighborhood!

posted by KraZyKat on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:25:35 pm     #



There's a poster out here who'll be quick to blame the TPS...

It would be interesting to find out if these guys graduated from High School

posted by KraZyKat on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:42:13 pm     #



WOW...nice neighborhood!

Now look on a map where you send your kids to UT.

Go Falcons...

posted by billy on Aug 15, 2008 at 03:44:43 pm     #



I'm sure someone will try and blame it all on "whitey".

About the cost of execution vs life. I wonder if they are adding in the cost of appeal after appeal after appeal?

I would even settle for using the death penalty only in cases where there is no doubt whatever. If you have someone on tape executing someone during a crime there is no logical reason why we should keep them alive for 20 years.

posted by JeepMaker on Aug 15, 2008 at 04:38:10 pm     #



It's my understanding that Appeals can only be heard if there's 'new' evidence, an important matter wasn't addressed, etc., so it's not like the convicted can 'wear down' the justice system and waste money.

The justices can also refuse to hear an appeal.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 15, 2008 at 06:00:28 pm     #



I thought that many states with the death penalty have mandatory appeals that have to be reviewed prior to the execution being set. That is why so many death row inmates are on death row for years.

posted by hockeyfan on Aug 16, 2008 at 12:13:52 am     #



From someone who was very very close to someone who was shot (execution style) in the head twice while working at a convenience store, I'd like to put my two cents into this debate:

Miraculously my friend didn't die, but he suffered some brain damage and was never the same person after the shooting (1986). He suffered multiple physical affects, cognitive, and emotional issues. His family and friends were also deeply affected for life. It changed me too. I don't know if a day goes by that I don't think about it.

At the time of the incident and for several years after, I wanted the shooter to die. It took many years (and spiritual influence) to get to the point where I realize that repaying violence with violence does absolutely nothing to change a bad heart into a good one. It only reinforces whatever hatred or other evil they already carried with them.

Trial by peers - prison - reform. No tv or other privileges except books and mandatory psychotherapy. Prayer is also a must. Pray for these criminals after you pray for their victims' families.

posted by FatBabe44 on Aug 16, 2008 at 05:06:27 pm     #



"WOW...nice neighborhood!

Now look on a map where you send your kids to UT.

Go Falcons..."----

Spoken like a true BGSU grad, I assume, LOL. I look at a map of UT and I see Ottawa Hills on the extreme western border and Old Orchard to the north. Great family neighborhoods. Let's not make this about UT, unless the crime was committed on campus, which it wasn't.

posted by McCaskey on Aug 16, 2008 at 06:59:40 pm     #



McC - yes and no. I am a proud BG grad, and that part was written in jest.

But your other comment is a bit head in the sand. Yes O.H. and Old Orchard are nice neighborhoods to the west and the north. (you didn't really have to pull out a map for that did you?)

But you cannot deny that to the south, the UT does indeed border a nasty part of town.
The point I was making was that as a parent I would definitely look at that when looking where to send my kid to college, and as a student I'd definitely look at that when looking for off campus housing.

posted by billy on Aug 17, 2008 at 06:47:23 am     #



I understand your point. When I went there most of the off-campus housing was just to the east (pretty safe in the 70's, somewhat less so now), Hunter's Ridge apartments to the south (very popular then), or Old Orchard/Toledo Hospital area rentals north. Occasionally, there was a big house in OH to rent when some big-shot got a last-second job transfer.

No question, an urban campus setting has more challenges in safety concerns than small towns. I just don't look at UT area being overly dangerous; you just have to be careful and smart where you choose your housing.

posted by McCaskey on Aug 17, 2008 at 12:05:41 pm     #



I wonder what UT's plans will be for that BP property once it's purchased...

posted by MrsPhoenix on Aug 18, 2008 at 07:34:11 am     #



It shows how f***ed up our world has become. Way back in the mid 70's when I was a kid, I worked at the SOHIO (precursor to BP) at Bancroft & Upton. No doubt a shitty neighborhood even back then. We got robbed 6 or 7 times in the 11 months that I worked there.
The difference was, they didn't want to kill you, they just wanted the cash. Now, they'd just as soon kill you, they don't care.

posted by JeepMaker on Aug 18, 2008 at 08:11:38 am     #



Although it might not have made a difference in this case it's not safe to have just one employee on the premises. In Florida it's the law that during certain hours if the doors are open two employees must be on duty. To get around that law many convenience store/gas stations lock the doors and operate through a drive/walk up window. At least that was the case in the Mimai area the last time we were down there.

posted by holland on Aug 18, 2008 at 11:50:15 am     #