Toledo Talk

Charlottesville

It was bad enough when Nazis showed up in North Toledo some years back. It sucked that they showed up again on 419 Day a couple of years ago.

But damn. The guy who killed someone at a peaceful protest in Charlottesville was from here ?

I wish I could say I was surprised, really. Last year, I started working for a civil rights firm. While I love my job, I am amazed at how evil people can be to each other, all over skin color. Or religion. Or disability.

I am so, so sorry for the victims. I'd offer thoughts and prayers, but I think the time for that is passed. It's time for real action, and education about race.

created by Anniecski on Aug 13, 2017 at 07:50:12 am     Comments: 46

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I know there is still much work to be done locally on the issues you mentioned, but part of me was a little relieved to hear that he had only been living in the area for a year.

(He was raised in Florence, Kentucky. His mom moved up here last year for a job, and he came with her.)

I will never understand what makes a person be so hateful. :(

posted by mom2 on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:08:41 am     #  

I know there is still much work to be done locally on the issues you mentioned, but part of me was a little relieved to hear that he had only been living in the area for a year.

(He was raised in Florence, Kentucky. His mom moved up here last year for a job, and he came with her.)

I will never understand what makes a person be so hateful. :(

posted by mom2 on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:09:19 am     #   2 people liked this

(Damn double post - I shouldn't be allowed here before coffee)

posted by mom2 on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:10:26 am     #  

News says he was a transplant not an original plug from Maumee so the linkage to that city is unfortunate and not accurate. The last sentence of Clarence Darrow's closing argument from the famous Scopes Monkey trial in Dayton Tennessee 1925 was a plea against bigotry, hatred and intolerance. We still need to turn onto that compass heading.

posted by Mariner on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:14:57 am     #  

So, is the suspect the Securitas security guard from the Kroger liquor store? He looks familiar.

posted by justread on Aug 14, 2017 at 12:26:36 pm     #  

According to reports, he did work for Securitas

posted by Hoops on Aug 14, 2017 at 01:20:58 pm     #  

Ran across this article on the Blade's coverage:

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/toledo-blade-charlottesville.php?utm_content=buffer39b9e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer

One interesting part:

Through voter and vehicle registration records, he says, the Blade found that the car was registered ...

I knew voter records were public, but vehicle registration records are public?

posted by not_me on Aug 15, 2017 at 08:52:28 pm     #  

very much so

posted by upso on Aug 15, 2017 at 10:47:25 pm     #  

upso posted at 11:47:25 PM on Aug 15, 2017:

very much so

Got a link where it can be searched? I went looking, but the only thing I found is if you already had the VIN, and it also said:

Ohio Revised Code 4501.27 prohibits the BMV from releasing private owner information.

How do you go from a plate number or a description to a name like the Blade did?

posted by not_me on Aug 16, 2017 at 06:19:31 am     #  

BMV records are most decidedly NOT public record. Ask the former employee at the BMV who released information about Joe the Plumber.

Journalists are supposed to blur vehicle registration (although not bound by law to do so) because of the privacy of such records.

Nonetheless, journalists do have their source as do private investigators. When I was a PI, I had a friendly cop who would run plates and operator license checks for me for the price of lunch.

posted by MemyselfandI on Aug 16, 2017 at 04:43:38 pm     #  

I never understood blurring license plates in news photos or on TV reports. The plates are out there for the public to view on a daily basis and there's no directory a TV viewer or newspaper/online reader can go to to look it up.

posted by clt212 on Aug 17, 2017 at 07:49:49 am     #  

MemyselfandI posted at 05:43:38 PM on Aug 16, 2017:

BMV records are most decidedly NOT public record. Ask the former employee at the BMV who released information about Joe the Plumber.

Journalists are supposed to blur vehicle registration (although not bound by law to do so) because of the privacy of such records.

Nonetheless, journalists do have their source as do private investigators. When I was a PI, I had a friendly cop who would run plates and operator license checks for me for the price of lunch.

So basically the Blade admitted they used illegal sources to get the information and possibly has put the person who ran the plates in the 'system' in jeopardy of losing their job.

posted by not_me on Aug 17, 2017 at 11:31:55 am     #  

Do as I say not what I do.

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2017 at 01:26:33 pm     #  

The spike in violence in America just might be due to the fixation on individualism in our culture, which in turn, inclines us to devaluate people we do not know.

posted by flinty on Aug 23, 2017 at 08:07:19 am     #   2 people liked this

ESPN removing the scheduled play by play announcer from an upcoming University of Virginia football game in Charlottesville, a gentleman named Robert Lee (apparently of Asian descent) might be the most sickening and ridiculous PC move of all time. I mean.....this is flat out scary.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Aug 23, 2017 at 08:22:58 am     #   3 people liked this

True that Flinty. Add into the mix the mob mentality that comes when groups of such individuals come together and are collectively offended by other groups that believe differently who come together in the same place. First name calling, then someone throws a stone, then a rock gets thrown, then a bottle and within minutes the critical mass for a riot is achieved.

posted by jimavolt on Aug 23, 2017 at 08:24:35 am     #  

On a spinnaker run with the wind at our back when the breeze got stronger that is what we called "downwind out of control" until we crash jibed the sails or ripped 'em to shreds. So yeah this thing sure seems runaway with no brakes. Shorten up the sails boys.

posted by Mariner on Aug 23, 2017 at 09:53:07 am     #  

I agree Buckeye, that is going overboard removing an announcer from a game because his name is Robert Lee.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/08/22/espn-pulls-asian-american-announcer-from-virginia-football-game-because-has-confederate-generals-name.html

posted by jamesteroh on Aug 23, 2017 at 09:37:44 pm     #  

I can only imagine that the whole ESPN deal was done tongue in cheek to illustrate how absurd the situation has become.

posted by jimavolt on Aug 24, 2017 at 10:41:37 am     #  

jimavolt posted at 11:41:37 AM on Aug 24, 2017:

I can only imagine that the whole ESPN deal was done tongue in cheek to illustrate how absurd the situation has become.

Unfortunately, it wasn't. If you watch any of their sports "shows" they have become extremely political and have lost a huge amount of subscribers - in fact, they alone were the reason behind Disney's disappointing Q2 Earnings Report.

Sports WAS a great outlet for most people to spend a few hours away from the insanity.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Aug 24, 2017 at 12:17:17 pm     #  

Wonder how many of the Cajun Navy who are responding in Texas coming from surrounding states with their own boats, at their own expense and risk to rescue people fly the stars and bars. Some things fade back to the level they belong in when confronted with the force, majesty, and power of nature. Scoop them up boys and Godspeed.

posted by Mariner on Aug 29, 2017 at 09:30:01 am     #   2 people liked this

Saw a photo of a classic "redneck" running a small boat with a half dozen rescued black people in it, towing a smaller boat with another half dozen. The look on his face is abject concentration. His ONLY concern in life in that moment are the souls on board.

What if they told us we hate each other and we refused to cooperate? What if we would rather be neighborly? What if we are tired of not getting along? What if we love each other and we just can't keep fighting like they want us to? Screw the media.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 10:59:45 am     #   5 people liked this

Screw the media indeed. Jackasses can't put aside their agendas for 5 minutes to show a little humanity.

I've recently heard "America's greatest threats are Russia/North Korea/China/fill in the blank."

I've long contended America's greatest threat is it's own corrupt media.

Well stated justread.

posted by Foodie on Aug 29, 2017 at 11:20:08 am     #   5 people liked this

Dear Mr. Foodie:
Could you provide concrete examples of "America's corrupt media"?
Also, please explain/illustrate how our "corrupt media" represents America's greatest threat.
Are there news outlets that are less corrupt or not corrupt at all?
Thank you in advance for explaining these things.
I'm not very smart but I try hard to understand these things; I often need help comprehending such issues.

posted by MariaL on Aug 29, 2017 at 11:52:08 am     #   1 person liked this

Dear MariaL:

Do a little research. The "Internets" can actually be a useful resource.

Any news outlets that aren't corrupt at all?

Doubtful.

posted by Foodie on Aug 29, 2017 at 12:04:58 pm     #  

And while we're at it ... don't trust anyone over 30!

I swear, we're reliving the bad parts of the 1960s right now. Without any of the interesting music!

posted by viola on Aug 29, 2017 at 12:27:57 pm     #   2 people liked this

Make no mistake, the most dangerous part of this nefarious game Trump is playing with America is his constant demonizing of the media. When people stop trusting fact based reporting, then they are open to the worst kinds of propaganda and mind washing.

I have a lot of problems with mainstream media and its biases, its myopia, but established American media outlets are in the main trustworthy unlike the goons surrounding Trump. The press right now is the only line holding back the suspension of Democracy.

posted by SensorG on Aug 29, 2017 at 12:34:23 pm     #   4 people liked this

Actually, he was elected because people didn't want to be told by the media who the next president would be. (It certainly wasn't on his personality.) Did I watch "fact based reporting" the night of the election? I am not sure I have seen "fact based reporting" in months. I did catch a brief break from the propaganda machine late last week on Headline News. They actually reported on news because of the hurricane, I think.

The press right now is pulling at the edges of democracy, fumbling for a loose thread. Any notion of objective reporting has been jettisoned in favor of making and being news. Not reporting it.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 12:54:12 pm     #   6 people liked this

If you haven't seen facts based reporting in months then you really need to change the channel. Try something other than FNC.

posted by SensorG on Aug 29, 2017 at 01:23:33 pm     #   5 people liked this

"Screw the media."

What media orgs are you consuming? Who are you watching, reading, or listening to?

Apparently, my mileage has varied, at least with the coverage of Hurricane Harvey.

Regarding the media, I would differentiate between national and local news orgs.

In recent days, I've occasionally watched the live feed from KHOU, and I would say that those media people, especially the field reporters, have done spectacular work.

KHOU lost their studio on Sunday morning due to flooding, and they had to go off the air, but their live feed continued because sister station WFAA from Dallas filled in with their studio media people, but WFAA still had access to the KHOU field reporters for live updates from the Houston area.

KHOU came back on the air Sunday evening by using the studios at the Houston PBS station. But their signal would disappear at times due to rain fade from the heavy rainfall, but then WFAA would intervene again until KHOU was back on the air.

WFAA media people did a great job filling in on Sunday.

I probably watched too much of the KHOU live feed on Sunday and then again on Monday night and early this morning, but I have observed only extreme professionalism and class. I have not observed a single second of what could be considered politicizing.

Local journalists report from their home areas and try to inform local residents, whereas national journalists live hundreds of miles away and parachute into American hotspots for brief periods.

Regarding hurricane Harvey and the aftermath in the Houston region, the only video coverage that I have watched has been KHOU and when WFAA substituted.

For most of the weather info, I read the government's National Hurricane Center website and a private, Houston area website called Space City Weather.

I have not seen a single second of what might be called "normal TV coverage" because I have only watched the internet live feed on my laptop and phone.

In my opinion, always stick with the local media orgs in events like this.

Links that I have found useful since last weekend, regarding the Houston region:

Media:

Gov or other:

If wanting to simplify to two websites from the above list, then I would choose:

posted by jr on Aug 29, 2017 at 01:39:44 pm     #   2 people liked this

I only get my news from the Onion. Closest thing we have to real news, anymore.

Oh, and E! News. If they say stripes are out and plaids are in, you can take that shit to the bank.

posted by JoeyGee on Aug 29, 2017 at 01:39:56 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 02:23:33 PM on Aug 29, 2017:

If you haven't seen facts based reporting in months then you really need to change the channel. Try something other than FNC.

While that is cute, I haven't watched FNC in years.

Keep on with the stereotypes if they support the narrative you are pushing.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 02:03:10 pm     #   4 people liked this

Gaslighting, what Trump does every day. You see it manifested here in real time.

Gaslighting -
"Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief."

His followers seem to be especially susceptible...or willing.

posted by SensorG on Aug 29, 2017 at 02:11:45 pm     #   3 people liked this

justread posted at 03:03:10 PM on Aug 29, 2017:
SensorG posted at 02:23:33 PM on Aug 29, 2017:

If you haven't seen facts based reporting in months then you really need to change the channel. Try something other than FNC.

While that is cute, I haven't watched FNC in years.

Keep on with the stereotypes if they support the narrative you are pushing.

Yeah, you don't strike me as the FNC type. I can tell, because we can have a discussion, and disagree constructively and respectfully.

ALL Media outlets are ratings based, they are trying to get you to tune in and stay tuned in. Macneil-Lehrer never had to have anyone stick around for the next segment. Blame producers, not journalists. I am yet to see any news network pledge sobriety of newscasts. We ALL buy into the most absurd thing the other side does. Dear God, i wish liberals weren't associated with crazy Louise Mensch... But don't give me the line about journalism being dead. It most certainly isn't. In fact, great journalists, have little bias. When we divvy up into our camps though, we are quick to attack the journalists. Most of these people didn't muddle through impossibly difficult schools, low pay, bad hours and ungrateful readers, in search of promoting their candidate.They do it for the noblest of pursuits-speaking truth to power. These days, we need all we can get, and then some.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 29, 2017 at 02:15:59 pm     #   4 people liked this

I can tell, because we can have a discussion, and disagree constructively and respectfully.

You are one-half to blame for that. :D

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 02:26:57 pm     #   1 person liked this

On the (not) fake loss of confidence in the media (not) perpetrated by a gaslighter:

http://www.npr.org/sections/ombudsman/2017/05/15/528158488/looking-to-the-future-restoring-public-trust-in-the-media

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 02:57:36 pm     #  

It's funny to read people complain about stereotypes when I'm being told my coworkers and I are all corrupt, biased propaganda artists.

All journalism should be scrutinized heavily, because establishing facts within the public narrative is imperative for democracy. God knows I've criticized decisions by the Blade more times than I can tell.

Sometimes, criticism about American journalism as an institution is completely warranted. But this blanket attack on journalism, in my opinion, is based more on partisan priors than on a valid critique of the current state of journalism. And it's been part of a coordinated campaign to erode the concept of shared public understanding of fact. Now, if you say that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, you're biased and fake news.

Journalists are being assaulted, arrested, and in some countries murdered for doing their jobs. I'd ask anyone that feels so strongly that all journalism now is corrupt to consider whether they've been influenced by wealthy and powerful figures who benefit from that belief becoming widespread.

Democracy depends on journalism. Our journalistic institutions can and must do better. But this outright attack on the institution is, to me, vile. I'm sick of seeing my colleagues spit on and cursed at because they don't hold someone else's political water.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:25:54 pm     #   5 people liked this

ahmahler posted at 03:15:59 PM on Aug 29, 2017:
justread posted at 03:03:10 PM on Aug 29, 2017:
SensorG posted at 02:23:33 PM on Aug 29, 2017:

If you haven't seen facts based reporting in months then you really need to change the channel. Try something other than FNC.

While that is cute, I haven't watched FNC in years.

Keep on with the stereotypes if they support the narrative you are pushing.

Yeah, you don't strike me as the FNC type. I can tell, because we can have a discussion, and disagree constructively and respectfully.

ALL Media outlets are ratings based, they are trying to get you to tune in and stay tuned in. Macneil-Lehrer never had to have anyone stick around for the next segment. Blame producers, not journalists. I am yet to see any news network pledge sobriety of newscasts. We ALL buy into the most absurd thing the other side does. Dear God, i wish liberals weren't associated with crazy Louise Mensch... But don't give me the line about journalism being dead. It most certainly isn't. In fact, great journalists, have little bias. When we divvy up into our camps though, we are quick to attack the journalists. Most of these people didn't muddle through impossibly difficult schools, low pay, bad hours and ungrateful readers, in search of promoting their candidate.They do it for the noblest of pursuits-speaking truth to power. These days, we need all we can get, and then some.

The 24 hour news cycle has not helped news like we thought it might. It created the need for one hell of a lot of speculation. I like well- researched news without an agenda, delivered by a reasoned and relatively unemotional reader. Not someone who has actually just been triggered by the piece they are reading. You know what I am talking about.

While individual journalists can be found that do speak truth to power, far too many speak hurt to power. It's not the truth so much as gotcha in direct response to a shock to their system and core beliefs. Much of the tone of the national media toward the WH has been far outside the lines of objectivity, as much of the tone of the WH has had an unprecedented sharpness and absence of decorum. These are both truths. Yet no person I described above would ever suggest they are not driven by the purest and most noble pursuits.

Me? I apologize for neither. I wish he would stop tweeting just as much as I wish they hadn't spent the first 8 minutes of every broadcast of 2017 playing Find The Russian. Any Russian. Nothing burgers are as tiring as 3AM tweets that are well... too much. Much too much. I don't want to read his texts and I don't want to listen to them cry about it for twenty minutes of the next hour. What ever happened with that dam in California? Did they fix that? You got video? I wasn't happy for the terrible disaster down south but I was happy to see coverage of Americans helping Americans. Have we been suppressing that? It happens every day. No ratings for stories of real Americans out in America somewhere solving problems, pitching in? No time. Trump farted in a meeting, and got it on a hot mic. As soon as we can tie it to Russian food, we are leading the hour with it.

Journalists have looked into a camera and said they were shot at because they got caught up in the story and they were not shot at, even a little bit. It happens every day. News is born from the texts of their friends and sources. There are agendas from the very start. I see a politician I don't like do something and text my friend. Boom. News. Anonymous source.

I feel toward the media the same as I did probably since the first gulf war. I guess I started being gaslighted then. In journalism class.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:38:38 pm     #   3 people liked this

I think it is very important to be able to discern the Donald Henley "war" on journalism from the Donald Trump "war" on journalism. The former has been going on since 1982.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:48:43 pm     #   1 person liked this

It's been established on this thread that media is a commercial enterprise. As such both print and electronic are both ever mindful of enlarging their respective influences needed to increase revenue. Nolan if you could in all honesty say that you have a completely free hand absent an editor's oversight in all the pieces you have printed then a reappraisal is in order. Let's both face facts we all have superiors up to and including the executive management of your company. Those superiors are the ones who remove free from a "free press."

posted by Mariner on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:50:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

You lost me a Russia being a nothing burger, him, his family, his business associates and the folks he chose to surround himself with all have lied about meeting with the Russians, multiple times. Hell, he fired the last FBI director because he wouldn't stop investigating.

The narrative used to be 'we never talked to the Russians', the conservatives media is now pushing 'collusion with a foreign power isn't illegal'.

It's a big old something burger...

posted by SensorG on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:52:29 pm     #   2 people liked this

I don't think a reappraisal of Nolan is in order. Nobody has a problem with Nolan or Nolan's work. None of my points has really been about the local media. I am sorry to hear about people who are being spit on and/or killed. I hope my comments here don't cause more of it, because it almost feels like that's being suggested.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:57:47 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 05:52:29 PM on Aug 29, 2017:

You lost me a Russia being a nothing burger, him, his family, his business associates and the folks he chose to surround himself with all have lied about meeting with the Russians, multiple times. Hell, he fired the last FBI director because he wouldn't stop investigating.

The narrative used to be 'we never talked to the Russians', the conservatives media is now pushing 'collusion with a foreign power isn't illegal'.

It's a big old something burger...

Ok, so we will always have the tweet thing then. ((hug))

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 04:59:48 pm     #  

No one is saying a crossing guard doesn't care about children's safety. If the guard is hand-cuffed to the guard shack then who takes the heat when the kids are run down? In a perfect world...

posted by Mariner on Aug 29, 2017 at 05:03:17 pm     #  

Mariner posted at 06:03:17 PM on Aug 29, 2017:

No one is saying a crossing guard doesn't care about children's safety. If the guard is hand-cuffed to the guard shack then who takes the heat when the kids are run down? In a perfect world...

Not sure about your metaphor there.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 29, 2017 at 05:19:27 pm     #   1 person liked this

Well you don't want to google the keywords, I can tell you that.

posted by justread on Aug 29, 2017 at 05:41:25 pm     #   3 people liked this