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$66 a year in the face of rising gas costs?

Can't swing that to keep your consumption habits sloppy and the city a bit pretty?

I would say this would be low if not petty on the battles to fight.

Way to waste the city's time and taxpayer money.

Sounds like the work of a bored _____ seeking drama. Can't you call Springer like normal people?

posted by charlatan on Aug 19, 2008 at 07:56:04 am     #

"Can't swing that to keep your consumption habits sloppy and the city a bit pretty?"

You missed the point entirely, charlatan. Did you actually comprehend anything in the initial posting above? You need to pay closer attention to what's happening locally.

It's not a refuse fee. The money goes into the general fund. And the tax can be increased whenever the city feels like taking more money from citizens to waste on projects that have nothing to do with keeping the city clean.

"Way to waste the city's time and taxpayer money."

Holy hell, you could apply that comment about wasting taxpayer money to Toledo city government, Lucas County government, and the Toledo Public School system over and over.

Again, for charlatan's sake, :

Moreover, the City of Toledo has taxed the property owners outside of the limitations set forth in Ohio's Constitution and the statutes of the State of Ohio. Ironically, the City calls it a "refuse fee," when in fact it has little-to-nothing to do with refuse. Importantly, this $5.50 fee is arbitrary, and if it is unchallenged it may be increased by the Director of Public Services at any time to any amount for any reason. Beyond this, the money taken from the property owners under this fee is not applied directly to refuse related services, rather it is deposited into the City's General Fund and spent at the will of the Mayor with limited restrictions.

Earlier this year, Toledo City Councilman Joe McNamara expressed concern over how the city enacted this new tax.

Feb 4, 2008 Toledo Blade story :

Mr. McNamara said he has been fearful that a taxpayer would file a lawsuit, claiming the refuse fee was enacted illegally. "If you look at almost all the other fees that we collect, it's in the municipal code," Mr. McNamara said. "I have a major, major problem with a fee that generates $4.8 million a year being enacted administratively and I think that's a massive abdication of our duties."

"Last year, there was a separate piece of legislation to enact the refuse fee, it was defeated, and it did not look like the votes were there to pass it," Mr. McNamara said. "No specific legislation allowing the administration to enact the refuse fee was passed ... The authority to collect the refuse fee was passed administratively."

Mr. McNamara wants to amend a section of the Toledo municipal code regarding the power of the city's director of public service to include "the authority to promulgate a rule under this section shall not include the authority to establish a refuse collection fee after April 30, 2008."

"So, in other words, council is taking away the authority from the administration the right to enact a garbage fee," Mr. McNamara said.

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner's proposed 2008 budget depends on $4.8 million to be collected from the trash fee this year.

Brian Schwartz, spokesman for Mayor Finkbeiner, said he had not seen the proposal and could not comment on it specifically. "The garbage fee raises almost $5 million a year and having already, preliminarily with our budget proposal, met a $10 million deficit, it would be a challenge to find another $4.8 million," Mr. Schwartz said. "If [Mr. McNamara's] goal is to eliminate the garbage fee, he and City Council will be challenged to find another $4.8 million in cuts."

posted by jr on Aug 19, 2008 at 08:54:39 am     #

Mountains out of molehills. While the fee may be all of the things that its opponents claim, why not spend that time and energy on something else? Choose your battles, Karen.

posted by Ace_Face on Aug 19, 2008 at 10:13:36 am     #

Ignoring the molehills of today will lead to mountains tomorrow that may be too big to challenge. That's probably the reason why Toledo is in the shape it's in now. Too many people have been asleep over the years. How else can you explain the election of a tyrant to be mayor of Toledo for a third term?

Ace_Face asked : "... why not spend that time and energy on something else?"

Like what? Name something else. Last Septemer, Shanahan wrote a lengthy blog post titled White Paper: Fixing Toledo, which covers many subjects. So she has selected many battles related to Toledo. And she tried to get closer to the action by running for city council.

June unemployment rate in Toledo was 8.5 percent. Population is still declining. Taxes continue to increase. School system is rated a failure. Sure, plenty of mountains out there to conquer, but these things didn't just pop-up last week. People should have been concerned about these issues 10 to 20 years ago.

Here's a molehill from one or two years ago that recently seems to have grown into a mountain: Arena financing plan calls for county general fund dollars

Despite assurances by the commissioners, they have secretly (as in not volunteered the information or made any announcements) stated that county general funds dollars are scheduled to be used to pay for this facility.

Where was the big public concern before arena construction began? Too many dolts were excited to get a new arena that they overlooked the fact that the county did not have the financing to fund it. And now general fund dollars may be used for the arena. If that happens, what will replace these general fund dollars? More taxes?

The primary focus of Toledo and Lucas County governments and the Toledo Blade is all about a small area of downtown Toledo on the west side of the river. Taxpayer dollars are being used to bribe residents and businesses to move into downtown Toledo and stay there.

Note this comment by the Toledo Blade's political puppet Ben Konop in an Aug 18, 2008 Blade story :

"The fate of our region, in large part, depends on the future of downtown [Toledo]."

That is one of the most imbecilic comments uttered by a local official. But it is, in my opinion, the general thinking of the politicians who live in Toledo and work for the city and county governments. Combine that with a propagandistic daily newspaper, and we have an extreme bias for a small portion of Toledo.

And remember, Ben Konop has channeled the Blade's idea of implementing a regional tax to fund entities that exist in Toledo.

Nov 2006 :

Mr. Konop wants to pay for property tax cuts by instituting a regional tax across multiple counties to pay for cultural facilities such as COSI or the Toledo Zoo. That would enable the cultural facilities to operate as one entity, Mr. Konop said. The plan actually would be a tax increase for other counties, Mr. Sarantou said.

The Blade pimped this scam in Feb 2004. So everyone needs to be alert to the evil doings and ideas of Toledo and Lucas County politicians.

I believe state law has to be changed in order for a regional tax to have a chance of being implemented. But if the law gets changed, Toledoans will overwhelm the voters in the other counties, and a regional tax will get voted in. (Look at the TARTA levy and Perrysburg.) And it wouldn't surprise me if nearly all the entities receiving funding from a regional tax reside in downtown Toledo. Maybe Toledo officials can throw a bone to the East Side by getting the other counties to help fund the Marina District Fantasy Land.

But right now, Toledo and Lucas County taxpayers are funding a massive, downtown Toledo, beautification project. As I've mentioned before, we are witnessing the full scale deployment of the Cleveland Plan to hide from the public the Detroitification of Toledo.

And if you want to know how the above plan will turn out for Toledo, note the August 2008 Forbes list of America's Fastest-Dying Cities. Cleveland and Detroit are on that list of ten cities.

And implementing a possibly illegal tax that the city has code-named "Refuse Fee" helps Toledo balance its budget, so it can waste more money on this downtown Toledo beautification project. Here are a couple recent, "small" examples of blatant waste: Funding the Erie Street Market. Paying the utility bills for the old COSI building. It's all about having something, anything in a downtown Toledo building, and the city needs money.

The so-called refuse fee is simply another example of a long, local pattern of unbridled, destructive political thinking.

posted by jr on Aug 19, 2008 at 12:53:05 pm     #

Let Karen (and the rest of us that care) help fight the 'garbage tax' and the 'illegal' way they went about doing it.

I'm fighting the city's failure to obey state & local laws by not delivering legally requested documents (FOIA)

What are YOU fighting for, ace? charlatan? Don't complain about someone else trying to make a difference - get out there and YOU make a difference.

posted by GraphicsGuy on Aug 19, 2008 at 02:11:48 pm     #

This is why I think it's a money issue from Shanny's own keystrokes:
" * Continue the [unlimited trash] program, we already pay for it."

And more than a few of her other points focus on penny pinching on site we might be familiar with:
http://toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/4506/Karen_Shanahans_White_Paper_on_fixing_Toledo

Does Karen actually care or is she trying to score points politically?

Why is she finally taking direction from Joe McNamara who seemed call this months ago?

If it's illegal, where's the checks and balances?

But you're right micromanagement isn't my tedium of choice. I find the people who take it seriously generally suck at it and are anal to the point of incompetency. Although, the one liners and cliches out of these peoples' mouths make George Carlin seem like a lightweight. Cross the T's, dot the I's...misspell the key words of a grammatically indifferent statement.

And Graft:
I'm playing for levity, my charity of choice. Fighting is for losers. And losers make no difference.

posted by charlatan on Aug 19, 2008 at 05:33:23 pm     #

"If it's illegal, where's the checks and balances?"

Um, checks and balances in Toledo? You must be thinking about Toledo, Spain.

Hey, how about the Brownstones on Dorr Street project? Another winner for the taxpayers.

On Aug 19, the Lucas County Scummissioners approved putting the COSI levy on the November ballot. For the third frigging time. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. Toledo politicians define democracy/mobocracy as, "Putting my issue on the ballot until it finally passes."

Lucas County commissioners on Tuesday unanimously approved four levies for the November ballot.

I think TPS has two levies on the November ballot. Keep those tax hits coming, kids. They've done wonders for Toledo and the county in the past.

You should vote against every levy this November and use the excuse that you cannot afford the taxes because of rising fuel prices, rising food prices, your new Ohio keno gambling habit, and global warming.

Of course, many local politicians get their marching orders from the toledo blade editorial board. And I bet you didn't realize the blade editorial board is loaded with hypocrisy.

Let's see, the blade is opposed to any changes to the statewide smoking ban because the voters have spoken.

But the blade has no problem with the COSI levy being on this November's ballot, and the blade encourages people to vote FOR the levy even though the voters have spoken twice already, and both times the voters told COSI to go to science hell.

But what does the blade know about expenses and running a business? In 1991, the toledo blade had a Sunday circulation of 215,490. For the six-month period ending Mar 31, 2008, the toledo blade Sunday circulation was measured at 147,141. I guess we should have a levy to support the dying blade.

Checks and balances? I think it's called a moving van.

Toledo's population through the years :

• 1920 : 243,164
• 1930 : 290,718
• 1940 : 282,349
• 1950 : 303,616
• 1960 : 318,003
• 1970 : 383,818 (Ah, good 'ol 1970. The year of Unix epoch.)
• 1980 : 354,635 -7.6%
• 1990 : 332,943 -6.1%
• 2000 : 313,619 -5.8%

Toledo's estimated population :

• July 2002 : 309,106
• July 2003 : ???
• July 2004 : 304,734
• July 2005 : 301,285 - 301,728
• July 2006 : 297,806 - 298,446
• July 2007 : 295,029

In the last 40 years or so, the U.S. population has increased 50% while Toledo's population has declined 22%.

Regardless of the number of lost tribes Czarty finds in Toledo's underground caverns, the official U.S. Census for 2010 will probably indicate Toledo's population to be around 295 to 298K.

The August 2008 Forbes list of America's Ten Fastest-Dying Cities :

• Canton
• Cleveland
• Dayton
• Youngstown
• Detroit
• Flint
• Buffalo
• Charleston, W.Va.
• Springfield, Mass.
• Scranton, Pa.

Toledo is working hard to crack that Top 10. I am supremely confident that the blunderings of the local politicians combined with an apathetic, brain-atrophied, sheeple citizenry will bring us enough successful failures to propel us past Springfield or Charleston.

Remember the motto of Toledo politicians: "Failure is the Only Option."

posted by jr on Aug 19, 2008 at 10:59:01 pm     #

Dying populations is macro policy, which is probably more connected to people on Wall Street than Main Street.

Northern manufacturing jobs populated guess where?
Now that they're gone, people might has well stick around abandoned factories.

Some peoples' externalities are other peoples' realities.

I would venture that politicians are just as corrupt and incompetent when the going's good and thing's are growing.

But nevertheless, it's nice to see you're pessimistic about Toledo. When someone privy to all this insider info is selling short....makes people who would like a bright future want to leave.

Why haven't you left?

posted by charlatan on Aug 20, 2008 at 04:50:38 am     #

BRAVO!! JR!! BRAVO!!

posted by Darkseid on Aug 20, 2008 at 04:54:43 am     #

Every time I think JR has put up his greatest post, he surprises me and beats it again. BRAVO, I say!

posted by Darkseid on Aug 20, 2008 at 04:57:19 am     #

"But nevertheless, it's nice to see you're pessimistic about Toledo."

Please, your lame-ass playing of the negative card as a deflection tactic doesn't work on me. Besides, I've made a hell of a lot of so-called positive postings about Toledo since this site began in January 2003. If you wimps can't take the hard stuff, then don't read it. Do you have a problem with the truth being told?

"Why haven't you left?"

We were looking at properties in Ottawa County two weeks ago, so hold tight. I'm not a native of this area. I like the region, not one particular community.

posted by jr on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:51:24 am     #

The birding is good there I hear.

posted by holland on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:59:36 am     #

I didn't type negative, I typed pessimistic which is the opposite of optimistic for those scoring at home. And I don't play cards, proverbial or not.

"an apathetic, brain-atrophied, sheeple citizenry "

Isn't this a little on the elitest snobby side?

So you're saying you're a sherson (that would be the singular of sheeple) with a some forum software and an internet connection? So you're like the SwampBubbles person? Or whoever else does relatively the same thing....

posted by charlatan on Aug 20, 2008 at 09:24:36 pm     #

Uh, yeah, whatever, charlatan. Nice counter-argument to the information I've posted in this thread. And for those truly scoring at home, most of my postings are directly related to Toledo and this region.

The unemployment rate for July increased throughout Ohio. But among Ohio's six biggest cities, Toledo had the highest rate at 10 percent.

Aug 20, 2008 Toledo Blade story :

One in 10 Toledo workers - nearly 15,000 people - was jobless last month, the department said. That was the first time in 16 years that unemployment in the region's top city has reached 10 percent. It also was the highest percentage of jobless workers among Ohio's six biggest cities. Lucas County claimed a similar distinction among the most populous counties.

Someone tell the Toledo Blade to stop being so pessimistic by publishing information from the Department of Job and Family Services.

But don't worry Buckeye residents, the Ohio government implemented keno gambling this summer, so all will be well soon.

posted by jr on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:22:28 am     #

You're being a typical psuedo-political snob... "People are stupid" ho ho hum. "I know a few things." Zip zam zug. I think Carty and the like say the same thing albeit behind closed doors.

The economy sucks. Inflation, housing bubble, stagnating compensation, failure to retool for the green evolution, insistence on old unreliable formulas for new problems.....

It has nothing to do with the garbage tax. It's macro-policy. Things like NAFTA, GATT, having one-sided "free trade" agreements with countries that have child labor, no human rights, and no environmental standards.

The Blade envisioned the city as glorified truck stop back in the 30s I believe. Does anyone take it seriously or listen to its direction? You're probably one of a handful that do.

I think Forbes had a rundown of the 200 something US cities and about 85% were in a recession. Most the others were "at risk."

posted by charlatan on Aug 21, 2008 at 07:16:12 am     #

Interesting dialogue about the “Refuse Fee” and I wonder if the impact of the power of this illegal form of revenue enhancement has impacted the taxpayers of Toledo. According to the Toledo Municipal Code and the Ohio Revised Code, the voters must approve any additional tax in the form of a levy. Why is this? When we recently voted again to approve the ¾% “temporary tax”, had it not passed, our desperate politicians had the ability to change the “Refuse Fee” to $50 per month instead of $5.50 or $7.00 or $10.00 and the revenue would have equaled the millions achieved from the ¾% “temporary tax” (91000 households x $50 per month x 12 months $54,600,000) with the simple stroke of a pen and 7 yeas. Would Council do this? I don’t know, but the question remains, should they have the power to do this. I say NO; they should not have the power and both the TMC and ORC agree.

Also, ask this question: is this tax (not legal) or is this a fee (legal)? Though other court cases, the description of a fee has been defined: 1. Must be transactional (if you take a load of trash to the dump, you pay for that load only); 2. Must be based on usage (when you take the trash to the dump, you pay a fee based on the amount you take based on lbs. Or volume); 3, must be able to opt out of the fee (I only pay when I go to the dump, if I don’t go to the dump, I don’t pay.) Consider the other fees we pay: fee for a dog license; fee for a marriage license; fee for a drivers license; fee for a building permit; etc., and it becomes obvious this is a tax not a fee.

If this is a legal form of revenue enhancement, the City of Toledo would never need to put a tax levy on the ballot again, they would only need to increase the “Refuse Fee”. If anyone out there believes that next year it will remain $8.00 / $1.00 and the following year $10.00 / $0, then you are fooling yourself. The city spent a great deal of time patting themselves on the back at how much money they were pulling in, even over budget, and were so very proud of themselves. If done incrementally, we would become even more complacent then we are now as we justify the amount as only “$66” per year, and then only $96 per year, and then only $120 per year. When we think in this way, we make a molehill out of a mountain and that is how we ended up with a tax, which was passed as a fee.

In essence, City Council is stealing from the taxpayers through this illegal “fee”. If a shop owner catches a shopper stealing a $10 garment, they yell “thief” and want restitution… for a mere “$10” because of the accumulating effect of 1000’s of stolen $10 garments. We have laws to protect us from theft; we pay taxes for police, prosecutors, judges and jails so the “perps” can be prosecuted. And yet you cry “fowl” – a “molehill, a waste of time and effort, after all it’s only $66 per year… accumulating to $4,200,000 a year. I ask, is that really ok? Have taxpayers been harmed. You bet we have, so far in the amount of over $6,000,000!

posted by KarenS on Aug 21, 2008 at 09:56:58 pm     #

Tax is loosely defined as a fee for nothing in particular.

Karen, I'm guessing you own a little more than a homestead here...
And how many houses do you own?
What business(es) in Toledo?

posted by charlatan on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:25:08 am     #

"You're being a typical psuedo-political snob..."

Psuedo? I'm aiming for the real thing.

"Things like NAFTA, GATT, having one-sided "free trade" agreements with countries that have child labor, no human rights, and no environmental standards."

Right on topic as usual. By the way, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has issued a Red Herring Alert due to charlatan's presence in this thread.

Last September, bizjournals posted its hottest and coldest job markets, and naturally, Toledo was in the coldest 10.

10 Coldest Job Markets

1. Detroit
2. New Orleans
3. Youngstown
4. Dayton
5. Cleveland
6. Lansing
7. Toledo
8. Springfield, MA
9. New Haven, CT
10. Grand Rapids, MI

How about that. Our mentors Detroit and Cleveland appeared again on yet another bad list. And it seems Ohio and Michigan cities dominate most of these bad lists. Probably has to do with no child labor laws somewhere in the world. I guess the problem is not due to bad political decisions made by state and local governments in Ohio and Michigan. Nor is the problem due to Ohio and Michigan failing to adapt and innovate over the years. The blame is always with someone else.

On Thursday, I heard an audio quote where Democrat Toledo City Councilman D. Michael Collins ripped into Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, accusing Carty of being a cheerleader for himself instead of Toledo. Collins continued to have tough rhetoric for Carty concerning the Erie Street Market. And Collins said something about the reason for Toledo being in the shape it's in. I think he was referring to the mayor's political shenanigans. I'd say Collins needs to be more optimistic.

Nov 6, 2005 pre-election Blade article :

Mr. Ford has focused much of his campaign, however, on Mr. Finkbeiner's at-times intemperate behavior as mayor and bad development deals that have cost the city money.

Aug 22, 2008 - Toledo Blade - State wants more arena information on financing

Uh, oh, the state is sticking its pessimistic nose where it shouldn't be.

The Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission wants more information about the financing of the Lucas County arena project before releasing $7.7 million in state funds. The report, written in June and presented during a July meeting with the commission, criticizes the county for going ahead with the $100 million project without full documentation of how it will be funded or a signed agreement with the sports franchise.

"We're going to have an AFL team. All the work has been done to accomplish that," Mr. Chema said.

Chema is wrong. Toledo will NOT get an AFL team. Toledo will get an af2 team. The af2 is a development league for the AFL. Good to see the county is working with people who don't pay attention to the details or don't know what's going on. But then again, it's our long-time consultant Chema.

Oct 31, 2003 Toledo Talk posting :

... the proposed new concert and sports arena would require no new or additional taxes to be funded. An accompanying letter from the city's consultant, Tom Chema, of Cleveland, suggests the arena would receive private financing.

In January [2003], Mr. Chema issued a report under a previous consulting contract saying that private financing of a new arena was unlikely, and recommended the city enact a new tax on alcohol and cigarettes to finance an arena. Mr. Ford initially endorsed the idea, then backed away.

The county implemented a hotel-motel tax to help fund the arena, which I think has been increased or will be increased.

posted by jr on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:26:21 am     #

Charlatan, not sure what it has to do with the trash tax, but we a still paying the mortgage on our 1 home and I work 8 to 5 Mon - Fri for a company. Just a middle class resident trying to make ends meet.

posted by KarenS on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:48:25 pm     #

I think people sometimes act out of pure self-interest, usually when it involves money.

posted by charlatan on Aug 31, 2008 at 11:31:50 am     #

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