Toledo Talk

Toledoans ticketed for parking in own driveways

(Post by Ryan redone so the Yahoo! link was in the body text instead of in the title, which messed up my bb view. Ryan's link and succinct comment:)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/ap_on_re_us/us_odd_ohio_driveway_tickets

"WTF"

created by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:01:38 am     Comments: 39

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Comments ... #

"We" made the Drudge Report again even though it says "Ohio residents."

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:11:27 am     #  

"We" made the 'stupid' category at Fark.com too. Thread with 90 comments.



Some comments:

  • "That is farking sick. Good job Toledo."
  • "Hooray for representative government!"
  • "Looks like Toledo needs to take some tips from Tehran."
  • "Fines should not be used as a form of taxation."
  • "Turning people into criminals to balance a budget really results in a general disrespect for law."
  • "This type of "end-justifies-means" activity is a short-sighted strategy and vocational suicide for any politician who envisions a permanent career in the political arena to say the least of the socially deteriorative affects."

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:27:10 am     #  

I'D like to see them give tickets to people who park in driveways and completely block the sidewalks. I walk a lot and practly everyday I have to walk in the street to get around them. I've had a notion to just open there doors and walk through the car and leave there doors open.

posted by deere1 on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:47:15 am     #  

Yes, Deere, you can also get a ticket for parking on your driveway, across the public sidewalk. Now, that's just MEAN, TPD! I've seen it done.

posted by GuestZero on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:50:49 am     #  

At any rate, what sort of political moron calls a gravel driveway "unpaved"? It's paved with GRAVEL.

posted by GuestZero on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:52:12 am     #  

Posted at the Glass City Jugle, the official statement released yesterday by the Czarty administration. One line:

"The City of Toledo supports its laws in general and illegally parked vehicles can and will be ticketed, and these tickets are considered valid."


Jun 16, 2009 Thurber's Thoughts blog posting titled Toledo 'nickle and diming' its residents :

According to Toledo Municipal Code, Section 351.07 Standing and/or parking; prohibited or limited, it is illegal to:

(33) Stand or park a vehicle upon any unpaved portion of a front lot or side lot in any residence district, or upon any unpaved portion of a vacant lot in any residence district, except as otherwise permitted under the local Zoning Ordinance, Part Eleven of the Toledo Municipal Code.

The problem is that only certain individuals are authorized, under Toledo's code, to issue such tickets.

351.18. Parking tickets.

Whenever any vehicle without an operator is found parked or standing in violation of the provisions of this Traffic Code or State law, the police officer finding such vehicle shall take its registration number and may take any other information which may identify its user and shall conspicuously affix to such vehicle a parking ticket. Such ticket shall give notice of the charge against the operator of such vehicle and the place and hours that the charge shall be answered. The officer shall send a copy of such parking ticket to the place where the charge is to be answered.

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner refused to respond to questions about the ticketing from various news media, saying he'd already answered any and all questions regarding that issue - despite the fact that his statement was in response to questions he'd not yet answered.

I expect the city's next step will be to decriminalize such offenses, have city employees take photographs of the parked vehicle and then issue a civil fine, appealable only to a hearing officer hired by the city, and when not paid, send it to collection - just like they do for red-light and speed cameras.

After all - if it works for other traffic violations, why not for parking violations as well?!? All to get some extra cash because our politicians have spent us into million dollar deficits.


Hey, even the mayor gets ticketed for illegal parking. August 2007 Toledo Talk posting titled More Arrogance and Elitism about our supreme ruler getting a ticket for intentionally parking in a handicap spot while cooking his dog.

[Carty] was at the building for a 45 minute massage therapy appointment treating an injury to his achilles tendon. Here was his explanation. "There were no other people parked here. There were five other spaces. I have a semi-torn achilles tendon, my dog is overheated. That's why we parked in the shade."

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 10:56:52 am     #  

So parking in Maumee Bay field for the fireworks show is illegal? Will have to let the officer directing me to park know that I don't want to get ticked.

Not being serious but shows how messed up this law is.

posted by INeedCoffee on Jun 16, 2009 at 11:06:24 am     #  

CSI: Toledo

posted by TheTalentedMrC on Jun 16, 2009 at 11:29:53 am     #  

What a JOKE!!!!! What will they think of next????

posted by AquaMan22 on Jun 16, 2009 at 11:45:15 am     #  

This is exactly what I've posted about on previous posts. There is an ordinance that states you can only park on paved driveways. So, just because you've been parking on gravel for years, piss off the wrong person and they call the city. The city comes out and tickets you.
It is so stupid and frustrating.
What is the process to get this changed?

posted by hockeyfan on Jun 16, 2009 at 12:00:26 pm     #  

What about gravel parking lots ? - for businesses ?

Does this apply to them and their customers also ?

It's still hard to believe that people bought his song-n-dance, and elected him to office again - a few years ago. He's not any different today, than he was when he was the mayor previously (before Jack Ford).

posted by WalterAnthony on Jun 16, 2009 at 12:11:31 pm     #  

Yes, this seems like an excellent way for the understaffed police department to spend its time.

posted by jmleong on Jun 16, 2009 at 12:31:15 pm     #  

this seems like an excellent way for the understaffed police department to spend its time

This is EXACTLY the way he thinks the cops should spend their time - generating money, instead of stopping crime.

Will we stand together to get his ass out of there now??

posted by billy on Jun 16, 2009 at 01:08:55 pm     #  

GuestZero said: "At any rate, what sort of political moron calls a gravel driveway "unpaved"? It's paved with GRAVEL."

Dictionary.com definition for the word paved :

to cover or lay (a road, walk, etc.) with concrete, stones, bricks, tiles, wood, or the like, so as to make a firm, level surface.

I'm assuming "driveway" would fall under "etc." and "gravel" would be considered part of "or the like" but city lawyers may interpret differently.

As to the city's definition of the word "paved," what about a driveway that is part concrete and part stone? The tires rest on the concrete, but the middle portion of the car rests over stone. I'm guessing that parking on this driveway (and not blocking the city sidewalk) is a violation.

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 01:12:07 pm     #  

Kind of ironic:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-mi-revertingroads,0,1719061.story

Looks like michigan's story is an example of government trying to SAVE money, where Toledo's story is an example of Carty trying to MAKE money.

I dont see the former out of Carty - ever.

posted by billy on Jun 16, 2009 at 01:49:44 pm     #  

Speaking of Michigan, I live very close to the border - Im actually north of alexis - so I get up there all the time.

I do see that in the Bedford area there are some very nice homes. With gravel drives. Some of them are even on gravel roads!

posted by billy on Jun 16, 2009 at 01:53:21 pm     #  

Again Carty gets Toledo on the front page of CNN.com, with video to boot. Mark another one up for him......
What a pathetic Narcissist.

posted by angryconsumer on Jun 16, 2009 at 02:08:02 pm     #  

The front page CNN story angryconsumer mentioned.


The CNN story used video from the 13ABC WTVG story :





<embed id="otvPlayer" width="400" height="268" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"
src="http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/static/flash/embeddedPlayer/swf/otvEmLoader.swf?version=&station=wtvg§ion=&mediaId=6866363&cdnRoot=http://cdn.abclocal.go.com&webRoot=http://abclocal.go.com&site=">

Busted for parking in your own driveway. Toledo residents along Holland-Sylvania near Nebraska received parking tickets in their own front yards. The mayor defended the move, then refused to answer our questions. It is illegal in Toledo to park on gravel or anything unpaved, even if it's in front of your own home. Mayor Carty Finkbeiner says if you break a law, you get a ticket.


This is what the Czarty administration is calling illegal parking:

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 02:30:11 pm     #  

Jun 16, 2009 13abc WTVG story

City councilman D. Michael Collins said, "I want this irresponsible activity by city employees going into neighborhoods and just doing something by fiat, it has to stop." Collins says he is considering creating legislation that would allow only police officers to ticket citizens. He apologized to the residents who were ticketed and says he's keeping and paying their tickets.





<embed id="otvPlayer" width="400" height="268" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"
src="http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/static/flash/embeddedPlayer/swf/otvEmLoader.swf?version=&station=wtvg§ion=&mediaId=6867758&cdnRoot=http://cdn.abclocal.go.com&webRoot=http://abclocal.go.com&site=">

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 02:40:36 pm     #  

As far as I know, the Department of Neighborhoods can issue you a fine for not parking on pavement. Also, it's not Carty himself, it's a stupid ordinance on the books.

And yes, that picture above of a truck on a gravel driveway is in clear violation.
Another "cute" ordinance is that you can only have a certain percentage of your front yard devoted to driveway space. So when you see some houses with a "turn around" in their front yard, it is most likely a violation.

If you really want to be pissed off, read the ordinances. There are many stupid little things in there that most of us are violating, but since no one has reported us yet, we haven't gotten cited.

posted by hockeyfan on Jun 16, 2009 at 03:01:03 pm     #  

I read the "OHIO DRIVERS TRICKET IN DRIVEWAY" headline, and I just knew it would be Toledo. I love this town.

posted by thetoledowire_com on Jun 16, 2009 at 03:16:18 pm     #  

The Christian Science Monitor opinion titled Park in your own driveway? Youíre a criminal! (23 comments) :

Who says government doesnít always know best? And if government says you canít legally park in your driveway, they must be right. What business do you have parking your car in your own driveway anyway? And the acts of criminality have become so rampant that the Mayor has deputized city workers (instead of police officers and the parking division of the city) to roam the hardscrabble streets to issue $25 parking citations to individuals who have committed this heinous crime.

Not every citizen is getting a ticket. Only those who donít have their driveways paved. Gravel isnít good enough for the Mayor. Itís gotta be paved. If not, youíre a criminal. Itís not as though Toledoans are hell-bent against paved driveways. Itís just that the decision to enforce a little known regulation is taking them by surprise.

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, who surprisingly is facing a recall, says he stands by a bureaucratís the Acting Commissioner of Streets, Bridges and Harborís decision to ticket citizens who park in their driveways.

ďEvery law in the city should be enforced and I will defer to the director over the media, thatís for dag-gone sure,Ē Mayor Finkbeiner said in a press conference last night. ďI will not second guess her because more times then not sheís right and the citizens that are criticizing her are not right

Follow us on Twitter and weíll pay your parking tickets! (Well, actually, we wonít. But we would if we could).

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 03:35:54 pm     #  

Comment in the Fark.com thread :

So everyone paves their driveways, and the city has to upgrade its sewer system to handle all the extra runoff. Great way to solve your budget problems. If this is indicative of the way things are run, I'm not surprised there's a recall vote underway.

The Toledo-Lucas County Rain Garden Initiative

Maybe gravel driveways slow the rate of storm water runoff into the street. Gravel driveways may be more eco-friendly than 100% concrete and asphalt. So these homeowners with gravel driveways should be getting an environmental tax subsidy from the government. These homeowners should dig a shallow trough in the middle of their gravel driveways, plant some hardy ground cover, and call it a rain garden.

Douglas and Sylvania roads last summer after a toad-strangler


Dumblaws.com - Big Government. Small Brains. Dumb Laws.

Some dumb Ohio laws, assuming these are true:

  • In Ohio, if you ignore an orator on Decoration day to such an extent as to publicly play croquet or pitch horseshoes within one mile of the speakerís stand, you can be fined $25.
  • Women are prohibited from wearing patent leather shoes in public.
  • It is illegal for more than five women to live in a house.
  • No one may be arrested on Sunday or on the Fourth of July. full text

One for Toledo:

  • Throwing a snake at anyone is illegal.

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 04:54:58 pm     #  

I like the Ohio law, that says that I cannot be arrested on the 4th of July...

Maybe someone could do something illegal (but not too bad), on the 4th of July. Get arrested. Then when the case gets to court, just point to the Ohio Revised Code - and read it aloud to the judge.

The law is the law.... If that's the way they want to be.

posted by WalterAnthony on Jun 16, 2009 at 05:14:56 pm     #  

This was just on the local news here. I saw Carty's mug up on TV and was just like...oh dear god no please. Roommates were all like "isn't that where you are from?" sigh

The funny part is the local anchors made a comment on the recall on how there are a lot of politicians that should be and he is obviously one of them.

posted by JustaSooner on Jun 16, 2009 at 05:57:55 pm     #  

Yeah, I'll vote for the recall. Last week, I thought otherwise, but now, I am seriously sorry I voted for the son of a bitch. Actually, I've been sorry for quite a while. I thought he'd turn out better than Jack Ford. Hell, I'd even put up with Opal Covey rather than this shit.

posted by inga on Jun 16, 2009 at 06:06:02 pm     #  

Updated Glass City Jungle posting :

Hereís the brief overview, it is legal for the City to issue tickets on this in the manner in which they were given. Itís also appears to really be illegal in the City of Toledo to park in a driveway unless it is concrete or asphalt. It appears from looking at the changes that were made to a huge portion of the Zoning ordinances in 2004 that this was approved by Toledo City Council by a vote of 11 to one.

As for the vote on passage: Gerken, Grachek, Kapszukiewicz, Ludeman, McCloskey, McConnell, Sarantou, Szollosi, Ashford, Brown, Esbobar (11) voting yea; Shultz (1) voting nay. Mayor Jack Ford signed this ordinance into law.

The easiest solution? An amendment to that section excluding all homes built before whatever date they come up with that would prevent scores of homeowners and tenants who live in residential homes where the driveway is gravel or brick (though you could try to argue brick was dust free) and has been prior to 2004.

... the actual ordinance is phrased:

1107.1906 Surfacing and Drainage.

Off-street parking and loading spaces, parking lots, maneuvering areas, aisles and driveways must be surfaced with concrete, bituminous asphalt, or other dust-free material other than gravel or loose fill, and be graded to drain all surface water towards the interior of the parking lot.

Several driveways like the one in this photo exist in our neighbhorhood where homes were built 50-plus years ago. Stone, grass, or loose fill exists in the middle with concrete on the edges. And based on the above defintion, it seems this type of driveway design is against Toledo law.

posted by jr on Jun 16, 2009 at 06:49:35 pm     #  

How is it legal for a city worker to do this?
CH 36 website:
"
Councilman Collins said in 2007, city council did give employees inside Streets, Bridges, and Harbor power to write tickets, but on city streets.

The move was meant as a time saver so the police department would not have to be called out to ticket vehicles that needed to be moved off city streets when the city swept streets or removed snow during the winter months.
"

Cars weren't on the streets, they were on private property.

Charge the city worker with 1 count of trespassing for each ticket!

posted by anonymouscoward on Jun 16, 2009 at 07:09:14 pm     #  

Man, I'm so PISSED!!

I was parking down town going to the Spaghetti Warehouse, and I parked in that lot behind it there...

I was walking down the sidewalk toward the restaurant and frigging Chris Hansen and a cameraman from 20/20 popped outta nowhere!!!

He's all "So Billy, we've got a video of you parking in that gravel lot back there. Im going to guess that you did that on purpose? I mean you didn't just break down there or anything right?"

no

"And you knew it was a gravel lot, right? I mean, you didn't just think it was bumpy concrete or anything did you?"

no

"So had you planned on parking on gravel tonight, or was it just a spur of the moment thing?"

Fuggin prick!! He was enjoying himself, I could tell! And you tell me Carty isn't getting a kick back from every schlub who's on 20/20 when it airs in August!!!

Watch your back folks!!

posted by billy on Jun 16, 2009 at 08:27:13 pm     #  

I saw the link on Drudge earlier today, and I was almost certain this happened in Toledo when I read it. Very few cities in the country would do something so petty and absurd.

I moved from Toledo to Lexington, KY, a month ago and I have to laugh at this. This is a perfect example of why living in Toledo was only a hotel for me and my wife for a few years before moving on.

Is there any mayor in the country that makes Drudge more often than Carty?

posted by HeyHey on Jun 16, 2009 at 09:22:01 pm     #  

At least Toledo is famous again. Once again.....

posted by hunkytownsausage on Jun 16, 2009 at 11:16:14 pm     #  

posted by KraZyKat on Jun 17, 2009 at 12:11:15 am     #  

OK, what teh hell is this? I go to Florida for a couple of days and all hell breaks loose? I HAVE A GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, it's been gravel since the house was built in 1947, and my son is parking in it while we're gone. If he gets a ticket, the shit is gonna hit the fan!! Jesus Christ, how much more stupid can things get in this town????

posted by nana on Jun 17, 2009 at 09:04:49 am     #  

Phew - I'm glad I had my gravel driveway replaced with asphalt a few years ago. We park four cars in that bad boy, and that would be four times the tickets.

BTW - ever notice it's always Sue Frederick issuing the BS tickets and stirring up unnecessary trouble? Of course, she is a Finkbeiner crony, even traveling to London with Carty in 2007 for the "Most Liveable City" hoo-ha.

Let's not forget some of the other antics of Sue Frederick:

The trash-tossing, garden-despoiling incident

The Sue-gets-arrested incident

The towing-a-parked-camper incident

posted by historymike on Jun 17, 2009 at 09:23:53 am     #  

Enough people have linked to the story that it made memeorandum this morning.

posted by jr on Jun 17, 2009 at 09:25:27 am     #  

Toledo talk show host Brian Wilson phoned this in to Glen Beck on national radio. You can read the entire dialogue on www.glenbeck.com.

posted by flinty on Jun 17, 2009 at 09:12:50 pm     #  

Is Sue Frederick appointed to her position? If she isn't, she'll go when our lunatic mayor goes. What the hell is wrong with giving someone a little notice or a warning first and maybe a little time to comply with some obscure law. I think she's just upset about something and is trying to throw her weight around. (and there's plenty there to throw) Both Carty and Sue must suffer form the same type of malady. "Big head, Nothing in it".
If she wants something paved, how about starting with the crappy streets she's in charge of.

posted by AmericanPie on Jun 18, 2009 at 07:15:41 pm     #  

I took notice of how many houses have gravel driveways by Talmadge and Alexis. They could write tickets til pigs fly around here. There are tons of houses with just gravel in driveways.
I want someone to start a petition to get that stupid law changed before it gets out of hand. whoops, too late.

posted by hockeyfan on Jun 21, 2009 at 02:10:38 am     #  

The puny-minded, Toledo parking tyrants strike again.

Jun 26, 2009 WTOL story :

The enforcement of Toledo's parking regulations is being called into question once again. Those regulations allow on an uncurbed street only, the homeowner to gravel the width of one car parallel to the street and park on that graveled area. However, you may only park parallel to the street. You may not angle park or park perpendicular to the street.

When considering that provision, Mike Maria is wondering why he's been cited. "Got up this morning, looked out -- There's a ticket on my car for parking on my gravel pad, which they say is against the law." Maria says his car was parked just like Eileen Albright's van, which hasn't been moved since she received a ticket. "I'm right on stone that was put there for parking. It was parallel to the street," said Albright. She says she shouldn't have to pay the $25 fine.

Mike Maria has already ripped his up. "I'm not paying this ticket. I don't care if it goes to collection. I don't care if they double, triple, quadruple the fine. I'm not paying because I was not illegal." The incident has put a huge dent in their Toledo pride. "I like Toledo. I like the closeness for shopping, things like that. But this keeps up, we may move," said Albright. Maria tells us, "They're going to have people leave this city and not come back. We're going to end up a ghost town."

posted by jr on Jun 26, 2009 at 08:19:47 pm     #