Toledo Talk


N.J. residents plan to sue hot dog makers seeking health warnings

Star Ledger ^ | July 22, 2009 | Philip Read

Three New Jersey residents plan to file a lawsuit today that could put the staple of the great American backyard cookout -- the hot dog -- on the same path as the once romanticized puff on a cigarette.

Pointing to "landmark" research showing a heightened risk of colon cancer in people who consume processed meat, the class-action lawsuit in state Superior Court in Newark will target the makers of Nathan's, Oscar Mayer, Ball Park, Hebrew National and Sabrett franks as if they were Big Tobacco.


"We view this just like the tobacco litigation," said Dan Kinburn, the plaintiff's lead attorney and general counsel for the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. "There is now a scientific consensus that processed meats are a significant cause of colorectal and other forms of cancer."

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

created by Darkseid on Jul 23, 2009 at 03:15:36 am     Health     Comments: 38

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Comments ... #

four oclock in the morning and you're telling guys in front of a computer to put down their weiner???

posted by billy on Jul 23, 2009 at 06:21:00 am     #  

It's about time we attack junk food. I say, ban it and/or sin-tax the hell out of it for the good of us all.

posted by jr on Jul 23, 2009 at 08:23:53 am     #  

how did you feel about the smoking ban?

posted by billy on Jul 23, 2009 at 09:12:37 am     #  

Poor Tony Packo's. Does sausage count?

posted by INeedCoffee on Jul 23, 2009 at 10:03:10 am     #  

Health care accounts for 20% of US GDP. If you adjusts prices of cheap unhealthy foods to be in line with the full social cost of the product, we would incentivize healthy eating and more responsible food production. A $1.00 hotdog pays for a 10 cent dog and a 90 cent down payment on your coronary bypass.

In this country, the poorer you are the fatter and more unhealthy you are. In this country a double cheeseburger costs less than a salad. In this country a 2 liter of soda costs less than a 1 liter bottle of water.

Or simply start by cutting the depression era corn subsidies. It was designed to prop up poor farmers during an emergency. Why are they still in place?

posted by thetoledowire_com on Jul 23, 2009 at 10:21:36 am     #  

It's true. To increase shelf life, hot dogs and some other processed meats have high levels of sodium nitrite, which is allegedly carcinogenic. Like the trans fat that fast food chains pumped us up with for years, it's one more thing people can do without.

posted by housebeats on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:06:27 am     #  

how did you feel about the smoking ban?

Smoking is not totally banned.The last time I looked I noticed that people were still smoking and tobacco products were still being sold.I don't believe that wieners have a second hand danger to people around you unless you slip and fall on some excess condiments.LOL!Apples meet oranges.

posted by buckeye278 on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:16:38 am     #  

Ask yourself, what would Jesus do?

posted by djimpelr on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:22:57 am     #  

If you don't want them don't buy them. However,I do think the force feeding of hot dogs rectally should be banned.

posted by AmericanPie on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:54:31 am     #  

"how did you feel about the smoking ban?"


"Apples meet oranges."

Wrong! Health care costs, pal. At least that's what people say. So ban and ban often to help lower MY health care costs.

posted by jr on Jul 23, 2009 at 12:09:52 pm     #  

And A wiener is a wiener not a weiner.Pal!

posted by buckeye278 on Jul 23, 2009 at 01:06:50 pm     #  

What would Jesus do?

Personally, I think he'd avoid the pork sausages and go straight for the all-beef weiners. A little saurkraut and a beer and He'd be saying, "MMM! Heavenly!"

posted by Anniecski on Jul 23, 2009 at 02:52:04 pm     #  

"Jesus" Jesus would not eat ANYTHING that was an animal or came from an animal or has a mother or has a face. (adapted from Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease.) In other words.... Jesus would have led a strict "plant" based diet regimen. He would have shown us the way. But we all know that "we" would not have listened. Anyway, he retold that to me just the other day

posted by michiganbluecollar on Jul 23, 2009 at 06:23:07 pm     #  

Being a vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean healthier or that you'll lose weight. I was a vegetarian for almost 7 years (guess they call it ova-lacto vegetarian) because I still at things with cheese and eggs in them.

During that time I gained nearly 60 lbs. In retrospect I believe it was because I was substituting meat with grain and high carb foods like rice.

Now that I'm a carnivore again I think it's a good balance. I don't eat hotdogs daily or live off double cheeseburgers like I did as a kid. Though I still enjoy Tofu :)

Maybe tmi.

posted by INeedCoffee on Jul 23, 2009 at 06:46:05 pm     #  

Side note, if you want to kick hot dogs and hamburgers try Garden burgers and Tofu dogs. It really depends on the brand though. Some tofu dogs taste nasty like eating a raw brick of tofu. Though some brands have the texture and consistency of a hotdog which is awesome. I still eat them.

Garden burgers seem to come in two varieties: soy based ones, and straight grain. The first tastes just like a hamburger minus the grease, while the second is a patty formed bundle of rice/herbs/etc so super carbs.

posted by INeedCoffee on Jul 23, 2009 at 06:49:25 pm     #  

why on earth would you want to kick hamburgers????? Hot dogs, yea, they suck, like all the other crap we eat, but 100% beef burgers, preferably chuck, are awesome and good for you.

Meat is not the enemy, fat is not the enemy, CARBS are the enemy. Cut the carbs and all the heavily-carbed reprocessed food we eat with their stupid nutrition labels and you end up with nice clean healthy FOOD.

Meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch, no sugar. Another way to say it: eat FOOD, not too much, mostly plants.

Shop in the outside of the grocery store ONLY, avoiding the hotdogs and anything else processed in a factory except dairy, and you will be eating real FOOD.

Get off the crap, people, and quit fooling yourself that bread and noodles are ok to eat in ANY amount. It amazes me that the ADA STILL thinks that diabetics can eat carbs in moderate amounts...they don't and they can't, there's not enuff willpower in the world to fight against that insulin high we get from eating wrong and that's what is creating the diabetics!!! As soon as you are diagnosed as 'hyperglycemic', they start teaching you how to count carbs, not sugar, CARBS! Trying to eat 'healthy' carbs in bread and macaroni and noodles in a diet is a dead end, literally and figuratively.... there's no such thing. We, all of us, need to get off the hyper-insulinism joyride once and for all.

posted by nana on Jul 23, 2009 at 07:55:12 pm     #  

In my opinion, it's OK to eat a lot of Zingerman's bread, the best bread around, especially the Farm Bread. Too bad they stopped delivering to the Toledo area last summer. You know Zingerman's is a pretty cool business when they recently published a book titled Zingerman’s Guide to Better Bacon.

I enjoy eating grilled Boca Burgers, which is a veggie burger.

posted by jr on Jul 23, 2009 at 08:44:22 pm     #  

A great way to eat less, be healthy, lose weight, and think about food choices (this time in a fun way) is to ask yourself, "Would a caveman recognize this as food, and would he eat it?" Check out the book "Paleolithic Prescription" for more insight. I enjoy eating bison burgers ... what Americans were meant to eat!

posted by viola on Jul 23, 2009 at 08:59:01 pm     #  

You can have my share of vegtables and I'll take your meat and potatoes. I live to eat,not eat to live. Mostof my family has lived well into there 90's on this diet. I especially enjoy a goodhotdog.

posted by deere1 on Jul 23, 2009 at 11:14:41 pm     #  

im currently vegan (except rare seafood) and really enjoy not worrying about what i'm putting into my body. you only live once, and i want to live as long as I can

posted by upso on Jul 24, 2009 at 12:37:34 am     #  

i also second the applause for Zingerman's. we went to their newish "Roadhouse" in annarbor last week. soooooo good

posted by upso on Jul 24, 2009 at 12:38:26 am     #  

How about adding fish instead of meat for protein in our diet? And bean pie.

posted by ronaldo on Jul 24, 2009 at 09:26:11 am     #  

Vegetarianism: The most effective tool against global warming

posted by jr on Jul 24, 2009 at 09:32:14 am     #  

Has anyone seen Food Inc. yet?

Chipotle is sponsoring the film across the country but I'm not sure there is a suitable venue in Toledo...

posted by toledolen on Jul 24, 2009 at 10:14:24 am     #  

I'm a meat and potatoes gal. Unfortunately it shows. Overweight with high blood pressure to boot. I can't stand salads, unless you bury the greens under hard boiled eggs, bacon and dressing. I tried Kashi cereal once and it tasted like somebody had mowed the back forty, dried it and put in the box. Vegan? Forget it. I enjoy food. I won't live as long but I WILL really LIVE. Give me a rare porterhouse and a twice baked potato. I do prefer to cook from scratch though. No soda pop of any kind. If anything should be prohibitively taxed it should be soft drinks. You can't wash your pancreas with high fructose corn syrup day in and day out without having an eventual negative effect. Heading for lunch now - a BLT. On rye. That's healthy - right?

posted by holland on Jul 24, 2009 at 11:25:51 am     #  

Isn't bacon, like, 140 percent fat?

Just kidding, Holland. I'm with you.

I think a fine policy is "everything in moderation." As for hot dogs, I probably buy a pack of hot dogs about twice a year if that. However, I sure do enjoy a hot dog with blackened skin hot off the bbq at summertime family events, or a hot dog served on warmed bun with mustard at a ball park or football stadium on a crisp autumn afternoon or evening. If I suffer ill health effects due to these rare treats, so be it.

posted by jmleong on Jul 24, 2009 at 02:19:45 pm     #  

Holland and viola, thank you. More sane voices!!! Keep speaking!

Holland, you can do it, I did. change your mind, practice telling yourself no to the old patterns, reach for something better. don't bring wrong into the house. you know what's right, start telling yourself yes to the right things. recognize what's hurting you and stop the madness! :)

posted by nana on Jul 24, 2009 at 05:50:50 pm     #  

nana - I have no desire to change my eating habits. Let me set the record straight. I don't believe the way I eat is wrong. I'm not going to be guilt tripped into thinking it is. I developed high blood pressure at age 37 when I was a fit long distance runner. Now with a bad hip and no exercise it is worse but I'd have it anyway, no matter what. Good eating and culinary pursuites are some of my remaining pleasures. I'm actually off to Netties for a small chocolate cone, dipped in chocolate. There are two ways I'd like to die: death by chocolate or death by garlic.

posted by holland on Jul 24, 2009 at 07:03:03 pm     #  

I'm with you holland, I don't smoke, drink or do drugs (other than arthritis, cholesteral and blood pressure meds), I'm damn sure going to eat.

My Dr. told me to get more exercise to help balance my ldl & hdl and all that crap.

Whenever I feel like exercising, I go lie down till the feeling passes.

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 24, 2009 at 07:37:55 pm     #  

As a wise comedian once said, "Salad is what food eats".

posted by prairieson on Jul 24, 2009 at 07:41:07 pm     #  

I went camping in central Ohio this weekend. After a long day of observing nature between the soaking rains on Saturday, hot dogs cooked over an open fire tasted mighty fine.

posted by jr on Jul 26, 2009 at 02:02:25 pm     #  

hahahahaha, ok, holland, since you put it that way.....I'll take death by garlic!!! who wants to live forever anyway?? We'll just be a drain on the health care system.

A long time ago, when I was still riding a motorcycle, I told my younger sister (about 30, I imagine) that I was never going into a nursing home, I was just going to run my bike into a bridge abutment. A year later, she asked me where the Brigitte Buttman Center I was going into was, hahahahahaha!!! So, now, that's where we're both going!! :)

Actually, the last article in TIME this week is about euthanasia in the Netherlands. interesting timing.

posted by nana on Jul 27, 2009 at 08:54:21 pm     #  

That's a cute family anecdote. If I get alzheimers, no longer recoginze anyone and can't care for myself, my husband is supposed to remove all my identificaton, even cut the labels out of my clothes and drive me to Chicago or LA or any big city, shove me out on the street, turn around, go home, liquidate everything and head for a warm climate to enjoy himself. God, I'd hate to think of him having to dress, feed and bathe me, while going broke in the process. Passive euthanasia? The Eskimos used to shove critically ill oldsters out on ice flows. Put me on an ice flow.

posted by holland on Jul 27, 2009 at 09:46:49 pm     #  

"who wants to live forever anyway?? We'll just be a drain on the health care system."

Indeed. We need to support Obama's health care plan by consuming hot dogs to make ourselves shovel-ready.

posted by jr on Jul 27, 2009 at 11:39:54 pm     #  

I have tried to eat "right" all my life, and it never works very well. I love eating. It's a constant battle. What saves me is that I run four times a week. The only time I starve myself is when I have the flu.

posted by bikerdude on Jul 27, 2009 at 11:39:56 pm     #  

"... ban it and/or sin-tax the hell out of it for the good of us all."

Some stories from the past week:

posted by jr on Aug 01, 2009 at 10:12:50 am     #  

Whenever the topic is youth in asia, I always think of Edward G. Robinson in Soylent Green. What a diet.

posted by ronaldo on Aug 01, 2009 at 07:06:47 pm     #  

So, this is from my kid and it goes with what we're talking about here. (sorry, just can't give up and go quietly to the Bridgette Buttman Center!!! lol)

Hey all!
LifeSport Fitness is bucking the "bad economy" meme and is beginning to thrive. I am thrilled to be bringing honest, value-based fitness to the merry band of folks that have invested in themselves and tried CrossFit. They'll be the first to tell you about their remarkable progress.

Just passing along some info from one of my favorite sites called "Modern Forager" and urging all of you to come in and experience REAL functional fitness for FREE any saturday at noon. Sure its challenging but we always manage to have fun while doing something smart for ourselves!

See you at noon Sat!

Head Strength & Conditioning Coach/Owner

Fitness Spotlight
Subject: Modern Forager
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:26 PM

Modern Forager

Are Low Carb Diets Over-rated for Health and Longevity? The Kitavan and Okinawa Diets.
Posted: 03 Aug 2009 03:00 AM PDT

In a previous article “Are Very Low Carb Diets Over-rated for Weight Loss“, we looked at comparing very popular diet approaches such as Atkins vs South Beach/Zone diets for the benefits of losing weight. What was the verdict? Well, we saw that with a same protein and calorie load, there was no advantages in weight loss for any…as they all worked. We also saw that having some days of higher carbohydrate intakes allowed for the hormone leptin to increase (which also ties in with metabolic rate). So now we are going to look at another aspect, health and longevity, when it comes to carbohydrate intake.

The Kitavan Diet

In a series of papers on the study of the native people from Kitava (island in Papua New Guinea), we come across a very healthy….and high carb eating society (Gasp! I’ll let the shock set in as many may have thought carbs are evil…but we’ll talk more about that later). Here’s an abstract from the study that sums up the results.

This study examined cross-sectional age relations of blood pressure, anthropometric indexes, serum lipids, and hemostatic variables in 203 subsistence horticulturists aged 20-86 y in Kitava, Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea. The population is characterized by extreme leanness (despite food abundance), low blood pressure, low plasma plasminogen activator inhibitor 1 activity, and rarity of cardiovascular disease. Tubers, fruit, fish, and coconut are dietary staples whereas dairy products, refined fat and sugar, cereals, and alcohol are absent and salt intake is low.

also Stephen @ Whole Health Source expanded a bit more on these numbers for the Kitavans, and makes an interesting relation…
Kitavans eat a diet of root vegetables, coconut, fruit, vegetables and fish and have undetectable levels of cardiovascular disease (CVD), stroke and overweight. Despite smoking like chimneys. 69% of their calories come from carbohydrate, 21% from fat and 10% from protein. This is essentially a carbohydrate-heavy version of what our paleolithic ancestors ate.
The first thing we can say is that a high intake of carbohydrate is not enough, by itself, to cause overweight or the diseases of civilization. It’s also not enough to cause insulin resistance.

Essentially you have a natural group of people who are as a whole very lean (although they are not starving, and eat plenty of calories), healthy, have good skin, strong teeth and suffer from virtually none of all the “diseases of civilization” (obesity, heart diseases, cancers) that are increasing at an alarming rate…oh yeah, did we mention they also eat a high intake of carbs and saturated fat (mostly from coconuts) in the process?

The Okinawa Diet

Next up we have the Okinawans, living off the coast of Japan and most studied for their history of health and longevity. They too are a group of people with excellent health, virtually no “diseases of civilization,” live long and functional (no “aging diseases” like loss of memory or movement)…all while having higher intake of calories from carbohydrates (upwards of 50-60%).

The Okinawa way isn’t a magic diet or exercise plan – it’s a lifestyle. There’s nothing complicated about it. Okinawa’s enjoy simple lives and they eat from the earth. That’s it. No plan, no time limit, no weighing, no beginning and no end. Okinawa’s have remarkably clean arteries and low cholesterol. Heart disease, breast cancer and prostate cancer are rare. This can be attributed to the Okinawans mostly plant based diet that includes fish and soy foods with a variety of vegetables and a moderate amounts of good fats. They consume locally grown vegetables and large quantities of tofu (high protein, low-fat, calcium, vitiman E) and seaweed (higher in vitamin and minerals than land vegetables).
from Associated Content story - The Okinawa Diet: The Key to Longevity?

What you do find in common with the Kitavans is the source of those carbs comes mainly all from vegetables (notably sweet potato). While there are also numbers for fat/protein that seem to change depending on who you ask….cutting through the %s, the sources are still whole and natural such as seafood or pork and cooking with lard (not vegetable oils).

Not All Carbs are Created Equal

Ok, we have seen just 2 examples of high carb eating societies of people that can live long and prosper (yes I know what I just said, must have been from seeing the new Star Trek movie). But the real debate should not be about exact %s of carbs in a diet, but WHAT are the sources of those carbs.

Carb sources have increased through cereal grains and sugar. Calories have increased…..even though carbs have increased (while protein and fat has not)…the biggest increases of carbs now comes from cereal grains and sugar. Can we see a trend with increased obesity/disease and what is going on above?

Going into this a bit more, here is a good excerpt from Ryan @ Matters to Me who explains the difference in carbs:

I reference T.L. Cleave, who wrote an important book called The Saccharine Disease. In this book, Cleave notes that the rural Zulu of Africa (in the 1950s) were in good health on a diet comprised of 90% carbohydrate calories. In contrast, the urban Zulu ate less carbohydrates (81%), yet had more diseases than the rural Zulu. Cleave concluded that the amount of carbs being eaten by the two groups didn’t matter so much as the types of carbs. This seemed to make all the difference: the rural population ate maize and root vegetables while the city-dwellers consumed refined, industrialized carbs, such as sugar and white flour.’s not as simple as whole foods vs. refined foods — it’s also a matter of the qualities of the foods. To illustrate this, let’s evaluate two of the evils that Cleave proclaims to be the cause of modern man’s health demise. On one hand we have white flour: a starch — also known chemically as a polysaccharide — which is broken down to glucose in the body. Sugar, on the other hand, is a disaccharide with a significant difference: it’s composed of glucose and fructose, which the body handles quite differently than it does starch.

A high flux of fructose to the liver, the main organ capable of metabolizing this simple carbohydrate, disturbs normal hepatic carbohydrate metabolism leading to two major consequences… perturbations in glucose metabolism and glucose uptake pathways, and a significantly enhanced rate of de novo lipogenesis and TG [triglyceride] synthesis, driven by the high flux of glycerol and acyl portions of TG molecules coming from fructose catabolism. These metabolic disturbances appear to underlie the induction of insulin resistance commonly observed with high fructose feeding in both humans and animal models.

As well, this is also a great observation made by Matt at 180 Degree Health:
So carbohydrates raise insulin levels temporarily to store away glucose into cells. Is that a bad thing? Of course it’s not. The rise and fall of insulin is no different than the rise and fall of your chest as your breathe.

The biggest flaw, however, is the idea that repeatedly raising insulin levels will somehow trigger insulin resistance over time. This is nonsense. The rural Zulu’s and modern day Kitavans, who both eat insulin-raising carbohydrates at every meal never went on to show signs of insulin resistance. They didn’t show signs of it because THEY WEREN’T INSULIN RESISTANT!

Insulin resistance is something that appears to be triggered only in a reduced metabolic state – something I’ve reasonably concluded by following the work of Broda Barnes and Mark Starr – two men who reported never seeing a case of type II diabetes (severe insulin resistance) occur in someone with a closely monitored metabolism.

Since the only known substance that can reliably trigger insulin resistance in humans and animal subjects, something that was also introduced at the onset of modern disease, and something that has been associated with insulin resistance syndromes such as hypoglycemia, poor glucose tolerance testing, cavities and so on for going on a century is sugar. Not just any sugar, as straight glucose from starchy foods absolutely cannot induce insulin resistance, but fructose. Not surprisingly, the consumption of fructose is one of the two largest dietary changes to take place during mankind’s “ascent” to modernism.

So What’s the Real Answer?

When it comes to carbs, it is the source that seems to be of vital importance for health and longevity (which includes obesity that can come from a malfunctioning glucose metabolism). We have seen healthy societies with various %s (high and low) of carb intake but they all have one big thing in common…..they all eat natural “real foods”. They also have another thing in common, once people from their culture move into a more “modernized” food environment, then the health benefits seen previously decrease dramatically.

There doesn’t have to be just one way for health (and there usually never is). So don’t spend most of your time worrying about some magic macronutrient percentage and focus instead on getting your glucose metabolism fixed in the first place (especially your liver). Whether you choose to eat very low carb, moderate carb or higher carb… just keep these simple basic rules below in mind:

++Eat Mostly All Real Foods, adn here's a link to help you figure out what they are:

++Have a Active Lifestyle Mindset (make it part of your lifestyle, something you enjoy, an active hobby whether alone or with friends/family).

++Stop Stressing Out, Relax and Enjoy Each Day (including just being present and relaxing when you eat, and not stuffing your face mindlessly).

Have a good life!!

posted by nana on Aug 06, 2009 at 04:28:41 pm     #