This link, http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071030/NEWS01/710300342, goes to an article in the Cincinnati Post. I seem to remember seeing something about this on a morning news program but I couldn't find a link to it. What is your opinion? Is it something the administration can do anything about? If teen-agers want to quit school is this a good thing for those who stay, or should we try to keep them in school no matter how bored or disruptive they may be to others trying to learn? How much of this is the fault of the administration or teachers, and how much is the responsibility of the students and their parents? Can they leave, and then return to school when they've been in "the real world" a while? Should the teachers and administrators be doing more to keep these kids interested in school? And how? Do we need smaller classrooms, more personal instruction, and more technology? Is there some kind of "Sesame Street" for older kids to keep them interested? I invite your comments. Maybe we can "brainstorm" ways to get kids to stay in school, or feel less guilty about the "failure" to keep them there.
What Would You Do About Toledo's Drop-Out Factories?
Comments ... #
I invite your comments.
Aw, ya do not. Even I know better than that, and I am very gullible.
Maybe we can "brainstorm" ways to get kids to stay in school, or feel less guilty about the "failure" to keep them there.
Sure, that's easy. Tell the kids they can either stay in school and possibly make something of themselves, or drop out and get a job in the factory, with a labor union, benefits, retirement...
I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt about the kids who drop out of school. I never have, and it's likely I never will. It isn't my fault they drop out; it's their choice, approved by their parents.
There should be posted across every entrance of every school in Toledo:
"IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, TRY IGNORANCE AND SEE WHAT REAL EXPENSE IS.
Hello, parents? It's theur responsibility to get those kids to school... 78% attendance is ridiculous.
posted by jhostetler on Oct 31, 2007 at 01:22:29 pm #
i dont know, you know how easy it is to skip school and your parents never finding out? Well its even easier now then when i was in school, back then there was a pre-recorded message that arrived just before the end of the school day, back then you had to be creative to get around that one. Now-a-days: nada, nothing. My son had to miss school a day or two for illness, i never called it in, but we never recieved notice that he wasnt there. NOT ONCE!
Tell the kids they can either stay in school and possibly make something of themselves, or drop out and get a job in the factory, with a labor union, benefits, retirement...
Was the part about the factory job with labor union, benefits, and retirement supposed to be tongue in cheek? With all the competition for even those jobs lately, I can't begin to imagine a new high school drop out landing one of those jobs.
More like...prepare yourself for a job at McDonalds or WalMart. lol
Pretty much, although that's the way it used to be when I graduated. Ever since the rust belt collapsed times have been a little tough.
I dropped out of Oak Harbor High School half way through my sophomore year at the age of 16. The week I dropped out I took my GED and enrolled into community college. I graduated with my associates degree the week before many of my ex-classmates received their high school diplomas, then I received my bachelors from U of T and I'm applying to graduate programs this winter.
I know that I differ from the average high school drop out, as far as going on right away (or at all for that matter) to complete higher education, but I also don't agree with the standard opinion that dropping out of high school gets you nowhere.
Oak Harbor has a top rated high school, but sometimes that doesn't cut it. A well rounded education takes a lot more then looking good on paper and standardized test scores, and now looking back on my high school experience I only wish I would have found a way out faster.
My reasons for dropping out had everything to do with faculty and administration, and nothing to do with my parents. I was disruptive and bored in classes because the material the state mandates is outdated and unnecessary.
Of course I think parents need to play a huge role in their children's education, but this dropout epidemic is not going to change until the administration, faculty and overall school system structures are changed.
posted by KellyKorova on Oct 31, 2007 at 11:16:20 pm #
I read recently that a significant majority of 'drop outs' get a diploma or GED within a short time. Even though they're dropping out of school, it doesn't mean that they're not getting an education, nor going on to college...
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 01, 2007 at 06:57:45 am #
Kelly, congratulations on your successes. You are correct that dropping out is not a dead end.
There are many studies to confirm that after X number of semesters, GED grads and traditional grads maintain comparable GPAs in college.You indicated that the “system” didn’t work for you. I say that maybe it did, at least more than you care to admit. Weather you were bored or not, you, an obviously bright person, didn’t get that way by doing GED prep alone. Even in spite of doltish administrators you learned most of it while attending school.
Best of luck in grad school.
You know what... I'm having a hard time getting my head around the idea that all those dropouts from Scott High School are actually getting diplomas and moving onto college. Call me crazy...
I think Kelly's situation may not be the norm.
posted by jhostetler on Nov 01, 2007 at 01:09:45 pm #
You know what... I'm having a hard time getting my head around the idea that all those dropouts from Scott High School are actually getting diplomas and moving onto college. Call me crazy...
I think Kelly's situation may not be the norm.
I agree. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. Actually, there was a guy who would have been in my HS graduating class who did the same thing, so I know that it does happen from personal observation.
But I definitely don't think that its the norm for students who are dropping out of high school.
You know what... I'm having a hard time getting my head around the idea that all those dropouts from Scott High School are actually getting diplomas and moving onto college.
They’re not. But, they could.
In fact, one doesn’t need to finish high school or pass the GED to get into college, only to finish.
Kelly is an exception but their are many like Kelly who choose this option.
In fact, one doesn’t need to finish high school or pass the GED to get into college, only to finish.
Are you sure you stated that correctly? My husband graduated from high school 15 years ago...he still had to provide a copy of his high school info to Owens when he signed up this fall. When I attended my university years and years ago, I also had to provide copies of my high school transcripts. (Didn't have to provide HS info for any education beyond my bachelor's degree, presumably b/c they were receiving college transcripts instead.)
Yes, Mom it is stated correctly. Community colleges, including Owens do not require a diploma as long as one shows effort that they are working towards a GED and will have passed the Exam before completing their course at the college.
I see. I assumed that since Owens required my husband's HS info before he began classes that it was required for admission.
Perhaps they just wanted to verify from the beginning that he finished HS so that they knew they didn't have to track him in the future for GED completion?
It’s called access for all during the age of democracy in higher education. Since the missions of a community college include workforce development, developmental education and continuing education, some individuals are enrolled in on or off-campus courses before receiving a high school diploma or equivalency.
Some schools offer GED prep.
To do this they must be officially enrolled even if it is for only one or two classes.When you think about it, many high school students enroll in college classes while still in school: post –secondary options. The college or university will certainly claim them for their roles.
I dropped out of Oak Harbor High School half way through my sophomore year at the age of 16.
Congratulations on your success! What did you major in? How is grad school looking?
The public school system sucks, and despite the stigma of "dropping out" I personally wish I had dropped out in retrospect. I could have obtained my GED and been in college by the time I was 15 or 16. That's really getting a leg up. Imagine applying for a job when you're 18/19 and saying "yes I already have a degree"
1. As I said in my first post, I know I'm a bit different from the average high school dropout, in the sense that many of them do not go on to higher education as I have.. however the points I was trying to get across is the negative stigma of dropping out needs to change because it's not always a bad thing, and that in my opinion the current systems in place at most public schools are the reason for higher drop out rates.
2. This last spring I took one class at Owens and they made the biggest stink about obtaining an official copy of my GED scores/highschool diploma before I could register for the class (apparently the copy I had wasn't good enough, or that I had already completed a bachelors degree) It's funny because I've taken courses at both UT and BGSU and neither of them had this requirement but the woman at Owens insisted it was a state-wide mandatory requirement for all universities. Maybe they have changed the rules recently and that is why your husband needed to show proof?
posted by KellyKorova on Nov 02, 2007 at 12:17:10 am #
they made the biggest stink about obtaining an official copy of my GED
Just a petty tyrant tenured in a bureaucracy. Don't like them rent space in your head.
KellyKorova, would you have been able to pass the Ohio Graduation Test when you "dropped out"? And what do you think of such testing? You're probably more in the loop than I am (I'm 59); do you think that these tests are a legitimate way to show that kids have learned all they can in our high schools? Are they even needed, or are they waste of our resoures? Myself, I doubt any of the legislators that now make these tests a requirement could pass it themselves. That is why I think that it is so hypocritical that it is a requirement now.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 02, 2007 at 11:33:30 am #
Oh, another question, is the GED an "easier" test than the Ohio Graduation Test? Shouldn't we require one standard for all students? As an employer I might be more comfortable with an employee who passed the Ohio Graduation Test if the GED is a "lower standard" (unless that is all I need).
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 02, 2007 at 11:35:49 am #
If kids are "smart" they will find away around the "requirements". I had a friend (a prof at TU) who used to have a fellow visit him from the West Coast a couple of times a year. This fellow was a v.p. in a company that shipped diary products to Japan. He did his job well, but realized that he wouldn't get a leg in the door with an MBA from TU. He noted on his employment application that his MBA was from Harvard. It was never checked, and he had been working for the company about 10 years when I got to know him. He could have been fired for "falsifying" his documentation, but the company was increasing sales under his administration. I don't care much for lying, but it did show me what one can do if s/he has the ability but not the "credentials" that others value.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 02, 2007 at 12:10:09 pm #
From the news story :
Toledo: Bowsher, Libbey, Scott, Start, Waite, Woodward.
Some info from the report card for each building :
The ratings are :
Somewhat related, a June 2007 Toledo Talk posting titled TPS graduation rate at 37 percent? that pointed to a June 13, 2007 Blade story :
The report showed the lower graduation rate for TPS while the school system itself reported the higher number, using the state of Ohio's approved calculations. The discrepancies are likely due to differences in how the graduation rates are calculated. Ohio Department of Education officials yesterday disputed the research and its conclusions.
"We stand behind our calculation method," said Karla Carruthers, spokesman for the Ohio Depart-ment of Education. "Our formula is consistent with National Center for Educational Statistics recommendations for calculating graduation rates that most states use."
She said Education Week's methods don't account for student mobility. "For example, if a student leaves a district and transfers to another public school or to a parochial school and goes onto graduate, our formula accounts for that," Ms. Carruthers said.
Toledo Public Schools Superintendent John Foley said Education Week uses a "very simplistic calculation whereas the state allows for movement, and that is in keeping with the mobility rates" of an urban district like Toledo Public. "When a student starts as a freshman and doesn't finish four years later, you can count him as a dropout, but that doesn't mean he didn't graduate from somewhere else," Mr. Foley said.
Christopher Swanson, one of the report's authors, said Ohio is among 32 states that use a method called the "Leaver rate" to calculate graduation rates. That method leads many states to report "inflated" data, said Mr. Swanson, who is director of the research center at Editorial Projects in Education, the Bethesda, Md.-based nonprofit organization that publishes Education Week.
The report's authors acknowledged yesterday in a conference call with reporters that the transfer of students out of an urban school system in favor of charter schools could lower the graduation rate under their method.posted by jr on Oct 30, 2007 at 02:22:03 pm #