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Hell yeah! Finally a grocery store in this area that sells live oysters!

posted by thenick on Oct 31, 2007 at 03:48:40 pm     #

wild. there will be like 150 grocery stores within a 5 mile radius of there.. and none of them crappy. what is a shame is the effect this will have on all of the fantastic local groceries within a short drive... churchills, the 5star on bancroft, claudias, the new andersons in sylvania etc

posted by upso on Oct 31, 2007 at 05:03:34 pm     #

I'm not sure it would have too much affect on the Andersons Market in Sylvania...seems like a large percentage of their customers live in this general area, and I can't imagine anyone driving from Sylvania to Westgate just to hit the new store. (Only way I'd bypass Andersons Market to go to Westgate would be for something that wasn't offered over here.)

The other groceries though, definitely. And I agree that there are a ton of grocery stores around the area. There are 6 full service grocery stores within 5 miles of my home. Crazy.

posted by mom2 on Oct 31, 2007 at 06:55:30 pm     #

They can't be that bad - they carry Packo's pickles & peppers...

Actually, I'm sure they've done their market research and will be offering things not already found here. Personally, I'd love to have a place a bit closer to me where I could find multiple, unusual cheeses. Anderson's has some good stuff, but more geared to a general taste. We really enjoy different types and it would be nice to have a more 'exotic' (for lack of better term) selection.

Of course, our buying habits wouldn't keep a store in business though - there are just two of us after all...

posted by MaggieThurber on Oct 31, 2007 at 07:35:27 pm     #

I'm still crossing my fingers that we can get a grocer downtown.... Guess I could keep heading out to the 'burbs. Traders would have been a great reason for me to go to Westgate.

posted by Newbie on Oct 31, 2007 at 08:58:59 pm     #

a gourmet grocery downtown would be great... local OR national chain. the andersons market is really awesome...

posted by jhostetler on Oct 31, 2007 at 10:33:58 pm     #

and i would love love love a trader joes, anywhere, in toledo.

posted by jhostetler on Oct 31, 2007 at 10:38:36 pm     #

Three Buck Chuck would be amazing in Toledo. It's a total pain to drive up to Ann Arbor just to stock up.

I love living in the OWE/Downtown area, but the lack of a good grocery store that is open late is one of the main drawbacks. I'd say a good 4-5 times a week at around 10-11pm I get on the e-way to go to the Krogers on Secor.

posted by KellyKorova on Oct 31, 2007 at 11:19:45 pm     #

Trader Joe's would be great here. Ann Arbor’s store on weekends is a nightmare.

posted by Offshore on Nov 01, 2007 at 07:45:44 am     #

Does Trader Joe's have union employees? If it's non-union, that may be a reason why you won't see one in Toledo. It's probably the reason why Whole Foods won't open in the Toledo area.

Trader Joe's Wikipedia entry :

According to Business Week, Trader Joe's pays above average wages, generous bonuses, and contributes an additional 15.4% of each worker's gross pay into a company-funded retirement plan. As of 2004, pay for entry-level part-timers was $8 to $10 an hour; first-year supervisors average more than $40,000 a year.

Trader Joe's also offers health insurance benefits (dental, medical, and vision) to part-time employees and their dependents. Part-time employees must work 900 hours per year (an average of 20 hours per week) to qualify. All part-time employees are evaluated every 6 months with the possibility of a pay increase. They also get a 10-percent discount for items bought at TJ's.

Every employee of the company is held to a certain set of values, which they base their decisions upon. Those values include the importance of integrity, the company’s emphasis on its unique products, and the need to create an experience for its customers that brings them back.

I'm not sure about the validity of this Trader Joe's fun facts page :

Trader Joe's employees are non-union but they earn above-union wages.

As we know, Wal-Mart is non-union. From a July 2005 Russ Lemmon column :

Poor Pete Gerken. In 2001, nearly three years before Wal-Mart would open its first store inside Toledo, Mr. Gerken said bringing Wal-Mart to Toledo would be "the moral equivalent of opening a whorehouse." (He was a Toledo city councilman at the time.)

I find it ironic that Mr. Gerken is now a Lucas County commissioner. Why? Because by this time next year, there will be four Wal-Marts in the county — with only one inside the Toledo city limits.

I don't know whether he believes Lucas County has turned into a retail Sodom and Gomorrah, but I would like to think that, as a county commissioner, he can appreciate Wal-Mart for being a solid corporate citizen.

Two years ago, when the Westgate owner was planning a redevelopment of that shopping area, the new plan did not yet have an anchor store. September 2005 Toledo Talk thread titled Costco versus Whole Foods. psyche777 mentioned in the post :

First off Costco is being touted as union/pro-union. Truth of the matter is only 18% of Costco employees belong to a union. Whole Foods had it's first store unionize in Madison, WI.

Naturally, this became a local political issue. Toledo City Councilman Frank Szollosi said in a Sep 25, 2005 blog posting :

Carty Finkbeiner threatens Costco and Westgate redevelopment. At a Westgate forum tonight he rejected Costco in his opening statement and repeatedly throughout the evening. Carty's choice is Whole Foods, whose CEO has compared unions to herpes ( click here ). Whole Foods at Westgate would threaten the good United Food and Commercial Workers at Krogers. Click here for more info on how Whole Foods treats it's employees.

Oh, but Szollosi seemed to be thrilled about a Starbucks going into Westgate.

Starbucks! Don't tell me a Starbucks at Westgate wouldn't be one of the chain's hottest stores in Ohio.

Szollosi also said :

Praise Starbucks? Merely predicted it would be successful at a new & improved Westgate. Would love to keep locals there but with the draw of Costco the rents are bound to go up - would love to have the locals be part of the success.

But no official opposition to Starbucks by Szollosi or, as far as I know, by any local official. My August 2005 comment

Why do Toledoans praise Starbucks and vilify Wal-Mart? Mayor Ford participated in a public protest of Wal-Mart, but he attended the grand opening of Starbucks on Talmadge. That makes no sense. Why isn't Starbucks lumped into the same category as Wal-Mart: a soulless, greedy corporation?

The Toledo City Paper wrote a story about the opening of Starbucks on Talmadge, and the writer said Toledo was finally a real city now because it had its own stand-alone Starbucks. Maybe the writer was trying to be funny, but why not say the same thing about Wal-Mart?

In a December 2005 comment psyche777 said :

The only reason those [Costco] employees are Union is because they were a part of Price Club which was bought by Costco over 12 years ago and Price Club was union. This is of benefit to the rest of the non-union employees because Costco extends the union contract agreement as far as pay and benefits to all stores. From a non-union employee aspect this is why they don't feel it necessary to unionize other Costco's. They get the benefits without having to pay any union dues.

The same Teamsters Union said [about Costco]:

"They’re not union-friendly," says Rome Aloise, a union representative for the Teamsters, which represents Costco’s union workers. "They’re just as bad as any other employer trying to prevent people from joining the union."

All I was doing was pointing out they are not quite the "wonder" employer.

Before the September 2005 mayoral primary, what did Toledo's mayoral candidates think about Costco:

Three candidates vying in the Sept. 13 primary election criticized the proposal. "That would be a shame for that area," Councilman Rob Ludeman said at the end of a news conference. The Republican added later: "Westgate has a flavor all its own."

Democrat Keith Wilkowski, a former Lucas County commissioner, said the center "can do better" than a Costco. [Wilkowski] said he'd like to implement the five-year-old "Walk Westgate" plan, which sought to make the area more appealing to pedestrians. "A tremendous amount of planning has gone into developing it, not in a big-box kind of way," Mr. Wilkowski said.

Mr. Finkbeiner opposes large-box retail in general and was leery of Costco because of one of its store's effects on a neighborhood in Dayton. "If this development is similar ... we'd have serious concerns about it," Mr. Reinbolt said.

My comment in a January 2006 Toledo Talk thread titled Finkbeiner vs. Holland?

According to Liz Holland of Westgate, Whole Foods has zero interest in the Toledo area market. That means they're not interested in Toledo, Maumee, Perrysburg, nowhere around here. According to Holland, anyway.

Holland said Abbell approached Whole Foods about a year ago. She told Whole Foods they were talking with Costco about coming to Westgate. At that point, Whole Foods became interested in Toledo, but for some reason, Whole Foods later lost all interest in this region.

Everyone knows that a fair amount of Toledo's population is pro-union, but Toledo's attitude is also confusing.

Gerken and Ford opposed Wal-Mart, but Ford welcomed Starbucks.

Szollosi opposes Whole Foods but has no opposition to Starbucks.

Carty wanted Whole Foods even though the store's owner compares unions to herpes, and also Carty supposedly "opposes large-box retail in general."

Szollosi wanted Costco even though less than 20% of its workforce is unionized.

Wilkowski believed Westgate could do better than Costco.

Look at all the fuss by citizens and public officials in the fall of 2005 and early 2006 over the Westgate redevelopment . Some of the fuss may have been justified and some not. But it seems to be a hassle for a chain or anyone to open up something in Toledo.

On a side note: Like it or not, the new Westgate opened (and is still opening new stores) less than two years after the property owner announced her intentions, although it was planned to be "only" a $35 million project. But I think this is an example of what happens when government is not leading the charge. Holland officially announced the new Westgate redevelopment on Aug 25, 2005.

My Sep 27, 2005 comment :

And where were the city and county officials at the Aug 25 press conference lead by the Westgate owner who unveiled the new desisn for Westgate? More city officials attended the phony Southwyck redevelopment dog-and-pony show three weeks ago. The Southwyck owner was not present at that meeting and is not even involved in any redevelopment plans of Southwyck.

In early September 2005, WSPD reported :

The future of Southwyck Mall was discussed during a meeting there. Local developer Larry Dillin has a plan to convert it into an open air shopping center, with the possibility of building housing and office space. No deal has been finalized with the mall's owner.

Rob Ludeman, a mayoral candidate, was there with Mayor Jack Ford and says finding private investors to redevelopment the mall area is a better option than having it deteriorate further, but former Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, also a candidate for mayor, says Southwyck's past can be its future, if more pressure is put on the mall owner to find new retailers to move in.

Mayor Ford says Finkbeiner is to blame for Southwyck's decline, because he brokered the city land deal for the proposed mall that was never built in the Fallen Timbers area that froze investment and turned off some retailers to Southwyck.

Another Mayors candidate Keith Wilkowski called a news conference in the mall parking lot where he said he has no problem with developer Dillin, but he does have a problem with Mayor Ford's inability to close a deal.

Westgate redevelopment announced on Aug 25, 2005, and Southwyck redevelopment announced around Sep 8, 2005.

posted by jr on Nov 01, 2007 at 09:31:52 am     #

ok.. that was a long post...

posted by upso on Nov 01, 2007 at 10:00:56 am     #

"ok.. that was a long post..."

And damn informative. Context. People wonder why stores like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods don't open in Toledo. Well, maybe reasons exist that are not billboarded along our roadways for all to see. But all you have to do is look at recent history for possible clues.

posted by jr on Nov 01, 2007 at 10:10:50 am     #

Also from that same page that had the Trader Joe's fun facts :

Check out this link to a recent article. Founder Joe spoke to a group in L.A., and here are a few interesting things he said:

• Trader Joe's will do about $5 billion in business this year.

• Today the average full-time Trader Joe's employee earns $50,000.

Excerpts from a Workforce Management article about Trader Joe's :

Trader Joe’s has become a multi-billion dollar national chain partly through its ability to find cheap real estate, skip name brands and smartly manage its supply chain.

Employees stay because Trader Joe’s has created a culture of success: an environment in which everyone does the same job at one time or another and a place where people’s opinions are respected and talents are nurtured.

"They’ve taken the approach that the employee is number one," Kleiman observes. "They feel that if they treat employees the way they want employees to treat customers, odds are stores will have a better shot at providing a unique shopping experience for people as soon as they walk through the door."

This objective makes Trader Joe’s a tough place to land a job, which is also true of companies like Southwest Airlines, Whole Foods Market, and The Container Store, all of which only hire applicants who fit their strict customer service–oriented mold.

In some ways, the employee philosophy at Trader Joe’s is similar to the one espoused by Aldi, its German parent company. For both Aldi and Trader Joe’s, creating this largely harmonious environment means keeping unions out. This is not too difficult given the generous wage and benefits packages.

If money is the prime motivator, Trader Joe’s may jump-start more than its share of careers in the food industry and will most likely never be a union shop. The company pays employees an average of $21 per hour, compared with an average of $17.90 at union operations. Add to that health insurance and retirement benefits, and you’ve got all the ingredients of world-class labor practices that don’t go unappreciated by employees or unnoticed by customers.

Posting about Whole Foods :

Whole Foods' list of "core values" promises an empowering environment for workers, and in some ways the company lives up to that claim—suggested by its recent rankings in the top half of Fortune magazine's list of 100 best American companies to work for. Company policy limits the salaries of CEO John Mackey and other top executives to no more than 14 times the average salary of all full-time employees—a relatively narrow ratio, considering that during the Nineties many CEOs made several hundred times the standard employee salary.

The company's proxy statement reflects that in 2001 Mackey, the company's highest-paid employee, earned $265,000, plus $93,500 in bonuses, stocks, and other compensation. Not exactly minimum wage, but by contemporary tycoon standards rather modest.

But despite the company's declared commitments to animals, people, and the planet, Mackey is vociferously anti-union, having notoriously compared tolerating labor unions to having herpes: "It doesn't kill you, but it's unpleasant and inconvenient and it stops a lot of people from becoming your lover."

Unimpressed by Mackey's rhetoric, employees at Whole Foods' Madison, Wisc., store voted in July to join the United Food and Commercial Workers union, becoming the first Whole Foods workers to unionize.

I think it's safe to say that a Trader Joe's or a Whole Foods planning to open in Toledo would face opposition.

Info about Costco :

But there’s another company that is breaking the Wal-Mart mold: Costco Wholesale Corp., now the fifth-largest retailer in the U.S. While Wal-Mart pays an average of $9.68 an hour, the average hourly wage of employees of the Issaquah, Wash.-based warehouse club operator is $16. After three years a typical full-time Costco worker makes about $42,000, and the company foots 92% of its workers’ health insurance tab.

Though only about 18% of Costco’s total workforce is unionized, union representation creates a ripple effect and helps determine labor standards in all stores. The Teamsters represent about 15,000 workers at 56 Costco stores in California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland and Virginia.

Besides the efficiency of its workforce, another reason Costco can afford to pay more is that it cuts the fat from executive paychecks. The overall corporate philosophy is that workers deserve a fair share of the profits they help generate — not just a pat on the back or a new job title like “associate.”

For example, while CEOs at other major corporations average 531 times the pay of their lowest-paid employees, Sinegal takes only 10 times the pay of his typical employee. His annual salary is $350,000, compared to about $5.3 million awarded to Wal-Mart’s Lee Scott.

Remember the living wage battle among Costco, Carty, and City Council early last year?

Praising wholesale giant Costco and at times blasting Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, a majority of Toledo City Council today approved a waiver of the living-wage ordinance for its planned store at Westgate Village Shopping Center. The vote at the hastily called special meeting of council was 8-2.

Mayor Finkbeiner, standing with 15 union officials earlier in the day, promised to veto, which could be overridden later with nine votes from the 12-member council.

It appears that Trader Joe's employees earn a higher average wage than Costco employees, so the living wage issue may not be a factor for Trader Joe's if one did decide to open in Toledo.

posted by jr on Nov 01, 2007 at 10:34:43 am     #

Suggest a trader joe's location form

http://traderjoes.com/location_requests_form.aspx

send it to everyone. we need this store in toledo. I know of at least 5 couples that go there every other week to stock-up.

posted by transcom on Nov 01, 2007 at 10:50:11 am     #

What's the big deal about Trader Joe's? I'd never even heard of it until seeing it mentioned on this forum.

I cook pretty much everything from scratch and have never had a problem finding the ingredients I need in our existing grocery stores...just curious to hear what's so unbelieveably special about Trader Joe's vs. other options we already have locally (now that Andersons market has opened)

posted by mom2 on Nov 01, 2007 at 11:16:12 am     #

Mom, try this link http://www.traderjoes.com/action_issues.asp#ShoppingDifferent

posted by Offshore on Nov 01, 2007 at 11:30:58 am     #

The Phoenix Earth Food Co-op just about does it all for me.

But back to Ann Arbor again. I really like Ann Arbor's Zingerman's. Too bad Zingerman's is strictly an Ann Arbor biz. It seems Ann Arbor has stores Toledoans want. Zingerman's would be an interesting store/deli/bakery for Toledo. Zingerman's, however, is high-end stuff.

I buy Zingerman's bread at The Andersons and Churchill's. Kazmaiers in Perrysburg also sells Zingerman's bread or they used to. Farm Bread is my favorite. The other day, I just finished off a loaf of their Sicilian sesame semolina bread. Does the Toledo area have a baker that makes bread the way Zingerman's does?

posted by jr on Nov 01, 2007 at 12:13:22 pm     #

Trader Joe's is owned by Aldi so basically think whole foods...organic foods etc. but under the TJ brand so prices are lower than whole foods. Plus they carry as much local product as possible. Beer, wine, produce, etc.

posted by transcom on Nov 01, 2007 at 12:50:35 pm     #

Prices at TJ are way low... and the selection is really awesome.

posted by jhostetler on Nov 01, 2007 at 12:57:03 pm     #

and transcom.. didnt they just open an aldi on monroe? seems like it's only time before we get a TJ

posted by upso on Nov 01, 2007 at 01:50:24 pm     #

and one in rossford by gian eagle as well.

posted by transcom on Nov 01, 2007 at 02:25:00 pm     #

I have to agree with transcom - I have already sent Trader Joe's 3 or 4 requests in the last 6 months. I hope they one day consider it. Wouldn't it be great if Carty could get the Andersons or Traders into the Erie St. Market? Sorry, I am just dreaming....

posted by Newbie on Nov 01, 2007 at 08:33:43 pm     #

This guy owns Trader Joe's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Albrecht
He's only worth $17.5B (22nd richest man in the world) and he co-owns Aldi as well.

It's probably not really that authentic and probably a little overrated. If you like cheap/exotic? wine there's always this:
http://www.bumwine.com/

I'm always surprised how many foodists have never eaten a raw egg.

posted by charlatan on Nov 02, 2007 at 01:42:43 am     #

ive eat raw egg more times than i can count. its not all its "cracked" up to be

posted by upso on Nov 02, 2007 at 09:40:13 am     #

There are a lot of good markets in the Toledo area:

Walt Churchill's has a good selection of a variety of stuff and the deli manager is very knowledgeable about almost all products.
Bassett's in Perrysburg probably has the best cheese/seafood/deli salad selection in the area -- and the deli manager is probably one of the most informed people on cheese- he worked at Zingerman's for a while. But, the store sucks when it comes to general grocery items.
Sofo's carries a decent variety of all things.
The Anderson's newest market is nothing but a disappointment because the hype and expectation was just that -- hype.

Unfortunately, there are no GREAT markets in the Toledo area.

It will be nice to finally have a market that will -- hopefully-- do things great, and not just good. So many of the local grocers have missed the bus when it comes to being innovative and cutting-edge.

Anderson's wanted it, but they have no idea how to turn the vision into reality. Bassett's could have it, but they stock aisle after aisle with wasteful junk instead of organic/innovative/creative products (chainsaw and motor oil in a market?!?!? Idiots). Walt's is just too damn small.

Everyone other local market lands in one of the above categories, or they were good at one time but have become stagnant in their drive for greatness.

Sad that Toledo has so many hometown markets, and not a single one has created a recognizable name beyond the boundaries of the Toledo area. Where are the grocers stocking Niman Ranch products, great cheeses from around the world, great American Procuitto and hams, and oddities like ice cream rice balls? Ann Arbor, Troy and Detroit is where.

Overall, a lot of local grocers are going to fall in the near future because they hire and recycle old managers who don't have any passion for changing the face of food in the Toledo area. I've seen so many employees who could make a change to the grocery business eventually leave the business because they have no path for advancement. Most of the managers at the local stores have been retail grocery managers in the Toledo area for probably >15 years. When a community of grocers allow such a revolving door amongst its' upper management, then we get what we have... a city waiting for something great to happen.

posted by JJFad on Nov 09, 2007 at 04:13:04 pm     #

Actually, after reading through the Fresh Market's website, I don't see anything that will come even close to Whole Foods/Trader Joe's/Papa Joe's/etc.
They state:
"Looking for something a bit different? We feature such species as Chilean Sea Bass and Orange Roughy. Due to their country of origin, these fish are frozen at sea immediately after the catch and carefully thawed to preserve the quality of the fish. By offering these “previously frozen ” fish, we can provide you with a better value and with no appreciable drop in quality."

Orange Roughy is something a bit different? These fish are frozen immediately after being caught?
Orange Roughy can be found at any grocery store, and I can find FRESH Chilean Sea Bass at Bassett's market.

posted by JJFad on Nov 09, 2007 at 04:18:05 pm     #

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