Toledo Talk

Welcome to the airport--now spread your butt cheeks

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/14/tsa-ejects-oceanside-man-airport-refusing-security/

Have been following the different stories about the new full-body scanners at the airports over the past couple of weeks--you know, the ones that essentially "nakedize" you as you pass through. Apparently this guy decided to make a point and recorded it for posterity.

Apart from this display--what do you folks think? I actually like the quote from this story that calls airports a "4th Amendment free" zone (that's pretty accurate). I've heard that pilots and flight attendants are up in arms about going through these things every day because of the radiation concerns.

Thoughts?

created by oldhometown on Nov 14, 2010 at 08:18:23 pm     Other     Comments: 100

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Comments ... #

That whiney ass douche bag would also be the first asshole filing a lawsuit if someone got on his plane with something.

posted by Ryan on Nov 14, 2010 at 09:13:53 pm     #  

I've been following this scanner story as well. Seems your choices now are to either be bombarded with potentially harmful radiation while some chump looks at you naked, or you can opt out and get groped in front of all the other passengers by TSA. Remember, if you are traveling with children, they get the same treatment. I am sure no one would mind if a TSA agent touched your 6 your old child's genitals, right?

And this guy is right, our 4th amendment rights are getting taken away little by little. If you think this is bad, wait til there is another major terrorist attack, which most experts seem to think is just a matter of time. God knows what fliers will be subjected to then. If the goal of terrorism is to affect the fundamental way that a society functions, then Osama bin Laden has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 14, 2010 at 09:29:53 pm     #   1 person liked this

I don't even bother flying any more. Used to be a semi-frequent air traveler, but seems like there are too many hassles these days. To an extent, I get why there's all the extra security measures - I just choose not to put myself in a situation where I have to deal with them.

Not sure what I'd do if I had to travel somewhere on a schedule where flying was the only option. Hmmn...go through the full body scan or potentially end up with a pat down & genital check by a TSA agent. No thanks.

posted by mom2 on Nov 14, 2010 at 10:07:45 pm     #  

Ok chiming in here, I used to travel frequently and I have a large amount of metal in my leg. Enough to set off the detector at every where I go. I have been patted down for every flight except one, I decided to try just going through one time, no beep! When I got back the same unit was shut down for repair, go figure. I am a large guy and I dont think TSA enjoyed it, but I have never been "Violated". I have had my brace checked for plastique a bunch of times, however. My mom is flying out tomorrow evening I'll ask her about the new procedure, she is similarly implanted with lots of metal.

posted by ciscoexpert99 on Nov 15, 2010 at 09:19:32 am     #  

I believe I heard on the Today Show that this only applies to 13 yrs of age and over.

posted by wahhutch9 on Nov 15, 2010 at 10:23:00 am     #  

I fly about once a month and I've opted for the "pat down" every time.

TSA would be better served if they started hiring qualified people! Nobody wants to go through this process with Mary who has 6 inch long finger nails and is popping her gum the whole time or Timmy who looks like he just ducked out of a D&D game to come to work (but forgot to shower and shave). If they implemented a dress policy / general appearance guidelines alot of this would go away. People just want to be treated professionally by professionals.

The biggest complaint I hear is not the process, it's the people.

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:10:50 am     #  

The biggest complaint I hear is not the process, it's the people

You have a lot of company:

http://views.washingtonpost.com/post-user-polls/2010/11/have-you-ever-been-subjected-to-an-airport-security-pat-down.html?hpid=talkbox1

I believe I heard on the Today Show that this only applies to 13 yrs of age and over

In any other context, it is child molestation.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 15, 2010 at 12:20:38 pm     #  

^
Was just pointing out the fact that 6 year olds aren't subject to this as originally stated above by Ace Face

posted by wahhutch9 on Nov 15, 2010 at 12:32:23 pm     #  

I have flown internationally dozens of times and have NEVER been subjected to a "genital search" What the hell is that? The only time that I have been patted down was when I left Australia for L.A. The only thing that really pisses me off is having to take my shoes off. The rudest TSA people are right up the road at DTW!!

posted by RockChick on Nov 15, 2010 at 12:53:22 pm     #  

I believe I heard on the Today Show that this only applies to 13 yrs of age and over.

Oh, well then if it's only 13 year old kids - ah, maybe we should make that young adults - well, that's alright then.

Out of curiosity, are there any parents on TT who would allow a TSA worker to run his hands all over the body of their 13 year old son or daughter? That includes groping your child's crotch. How about the nude body scanner? Is there anyone here that would allow it on their son or daughter who is only 16?

posted by madjack on Nov 15, 2010 at 03:59:47 pm     #  

The worst part of this whole thing is that it isn't really security, it's security theater. A reporter from the Atlantic was able to get through security with no ID, a fake boarding pass, and an Osama bin Laden T-shirt under his coat. Before that, he carried Hezbollah flags and other items that were just ignored:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/the-things-he-carried/7057/1/

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 15, 2010 at 04:58:18 pm     #  

I agree with those who I've read who have suggested that our TSA should follow the Israeli model for preventing terrorist aboard their flights. It's been proven successful and why reinvent the wheel?

posted by MikeyA on Nov 15, 2010 at 06:56:05 pm     #  

MikeyA...What is the Israeli model?????

posted by RockChick on Nov 15, 2010 at 07:36:18 pm     #  

The Israeli security model begins with sanity and ends with shooting terrorists. In between these two events significant efforts are made to not disturb the law abiding people using the airport.

Another thing about Israeli security is that they know their enemy. That means that by United States standards the Israelis profile, which everyone knows is somehow bad. Just how and why profiling is bad escapes me, but The Anointed One says it is, so it must be. Bad, that is.

King George II never said profiling was bad.

posted by madjack on Nov 15, 2010 at 08:27:49 pm     #  

OK, anti-gropers: where is your outrage over the gross usurpation of individual rights known collectively as the Patriot Act? The feds have collected millions of dossiers on law-abiding Americans, using the force of law to coerce libraries, internet service providers, banks, investment firms, and credit reporting agencies into releasing private information about their clients and customers.

Yes: the TSA infringements on individual rights and privacy are troubling. Now, let's see the anti-gropers take that anger and stay consistent in their concern. It seems to me some of my friends who are aghast at the TSA scanners and pat-downs were gung-ho when Bush and Co. railroaded through the most pervasive reductions in individual liberties since the Alien and Sedition Acts.

posted by historymike on Nov 15, 2010 at 08:42:58 pm     #   1 person liked this

yada...yada...yada "...when Bush and Co. railroaded through the most pervasive reductions in individual liberties since the Alien and Sedition Acts."

You'll get no argument from me on that.

On the other hand, Obama has done nothing, zilch, zero to reverse those provisions, nor did any of the Democrat majority of both houses of Congress. You can blame Bush all you want, but when the "opposition" got into office--partly campaigning on the unjust usurpations of power in the Patriot Act--they did nothing.

Except extend it.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 15, 2010 at 08:47:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

I fly more than I care for... work-related. Just a tip for the non-frequent-fliers on here:

Do NOT cover yourself in metal. Jewelry, watches, large belt buckles, etc. Put them in your carry-ons until you get through security.

Take off your jackets and scarves as you are getting into the security line. Place them in the bins with your shoes, laptops, etc.

When you do get targeted for additional screening, please just go with the flow.

Do not show up at the airport an hour before your flight thinking you can catch it at the last minute like we used to be able to years ago. That shit is over with. Done. Fini,

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 15, 2010 at 09:12:49 pm     #  

And one last thing, going through airport security isn't Disney Land. For you, your kids, and for the travelers that are behind you in line. PLEASE be prepared. Know what is allowed and what isn't by checking the TSA website. Please move quickly. Please recognize that there are travelers in line behind you and we don't give a shit about your drama.

THANKS.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 15, 2010 at 09:22:32 pm     #  

I agree with those who I've read who have suggested that our TSA should follow the Israeli model for preventing terrorist aboard their flights. It's been proven successful and why reinvent the wheel?

Because Israeli security techniques don't translate. Israeli security does indeed profile, but a lot of their security is based on interaction with the would-be passengers. You see this a lot in Europe too. A agent will ask you a lot of questions about where you have been, where you are going, etc. and is trained to observe behavior and decide whether to subject you to further questioning.

The reason this won't work here is that they have only one major airport that serves 10 million a year. O'Hare alone serves 80 million. The cost to make us all safe is prohibitive, so these backscatter machines and pat downs are employed to make it look like we are being protected.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 15, 2010 at 09:26:39 pm     #  

So it's legal for government to grope minors?

While in line at the airport, if you grope a nearby stranger the way a TSA worker allegedly does, you'll probably be charged with sexual assault.

"OK, anti-gropers: where is your outrage over the gross usurpation of individual rights known collectively as the Patriot Act?"

Hey man, our glorious Toledo City Council spoke for us seven years ago when they performed the courageous act of passing a stripped-down version of their own anti-Patriot Act resolution.

posted by jr on Nov 15, 2010 at 10:46:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

From HistoryMike: where is your outrage over the gross usurpation of individual rights known collectively as the Patriot Act?

Same place it's always been, pretty much. I'll protest, I'll write letters and I'd be happy to vote someone else into office, however...

From OldHomeTown: Obama has done nothing, zilch, zero to reverse those provisions,...

It seems that The Anointed One approves of the federal government's oppression of the populace, as do the vast majority of elected congress critters and their opponents.

Check your history on this, but the last time this kind of oppression was seen in the United States it was during the civil rights protests in the 1960s, something that The Anointed One should be keenly aware of.

This is one area that I actually believed The Anointed One would surpass King George II as well as very likely surpass McCain-Palin. I am, as usual, dead wrong. Instead of protecting our civil rights, The Anointed One has taken rights away from us. I don't believe McCain-Palin would have done any better.

posted by madjack on Nov 15, 2010 at 11:34:28 pm     #  

I'm pretty sure those using the phrase "The Anointed One" aren't flying very much.

NEXT!

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 16, 2010 at 12:20:46 am     #  

As much as I would hate going through a body scan, I would prefer to be embarassed than terrified knowing my life was about to end because a terrorist was able to get on the plane with a box cutter and was about to fly the plane into a high rise building.

posted by bikerdude on Nov 16, 2010 at 07:52:18 am     #  

Hacker News thread with over 100 comments that points to a Dec 30, 2009 story titled The 'Israelification' of airports: High security, little bother


Nov 15, 2010 story titled Can the internet bring down the TSA’s new enhanced pat-down search, also known as “touch my junk”?

A USA Today/Gallup poll released last week said that 78 percent of air travelers approve of full-body scanners in airports and 84 percent believe the scanners would prevent explosives from being carried on a plane.

... the Israelis don’t use the full-body scanning because they can’t capture explosives hidden in a body cavity.

Others have posted their “sexual assault” experiences.

Some 98 percent of passengers say they would rather have a full-body scan than a pat-down search.

One group has declared Nov. 24, the day before Thanksgiving and the busiest travel day of the year, to be National Opt-Out Day. Another group has created the site We Won’t Fly, where the slogan is “Act now. Travel with dignity.”


One link above points to an Apr 23, 2010 Vancouver Sun story titled Full-body scanners are waste of money, Israeli expert says

"I don't know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747," Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada. "That's why we haven't put them in our airport," Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.

Sela testified it makes more sense to create a "trusted traveller" system so pre-approved low-risk passengers can move through an expedited screening process. That would leave more resources in the screening areas, where automatic sniffing technology would detect any explosive residue on a person or their baggage. Behavioural profiling also must be used instead of random checks, he said.

"Having a random search at the airport is like Russian roulette," said SelaPolitical scientist Mark Salter, an aviation security expert at the University of Ottawa, testified alongside Sela. He told MPs he disagreed with Sela's take on full-body scanners, calling the machines a "genuine leap forward" because they not only detect current threats, such as liquid explosives, but also the next generation of non-metallic threats. "It is a much better mousetrap," Salter said.

posted by jr on Nov 16, 2010 at 11:05:38 am     #  

new theme music for those flying any time soon:

Hilarious -

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2010/11/comply-with-me.html

posted by billy on Nov 16, 2010 at 12:23:33 pm     #  

Woo hoooooo!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/16/100-body-scans-from-secur_n_784317.html

"Yet the leaking of these photographs demonstrates the security limitations of not just this particular machine, but millimeter wave and x-ray backscatter body scanners operated by federal employees in our courthouses and by TSA officers in airports across the country. That we can see these images today almost guarantees that others will be seeing similar images in the future. If you're lucky, it might even be a picture of you or your family."

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 16, 2010 at 03:35:06 pm     #  

MJ correctly identified the Israeli model. It's more of a counter-intelligence model with undercover agents and emphasis on profiling.

posted by MikeyA on Nov 16, 2010 at 10:55:31 pm     #  

This whole thing continues to take on a surreal life of its own:

Penn Jillette gets his "crank" manhandled

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9p.htm

I wish George Carlin was alive to comment on this stuff too...

posted by oldhometown on Nov 17, 2010 at 09:39:01 am     #  

How do these employees who do the scans keep straight faces all the time? They're getting paid to be voyeurs, essentially.

I think I would rather be felt up than be scanned, as bad as that sounds.

posted by renegade on Nov 17, 2010 at 11:18:38 pm     #  

The benefit of being a Marine is it enabled my werid sense of humor. Next time I go through the airport and they give me enhanced screening I will now pretend to enjoy it a little too much and then ask to be screened again.

posted by MikeyA on Nov 18, 2010 at 10:11:43 pm     #  

The nude-picture-taking machines haven't been approved by the FDA and nobody's checking them for radiation output. For all anyone knows they could be baking the noodle you don't want the TSA groping. If you think this of no concern then look up the THERAC-25 radiation machine and Google around for the stories that came out this past year about CT machines nuking people with too much radiation. Would not be surprised if suddenly someone tested one of these machines and realized it was frying 'nads or something. Massive class-action lawsuit and you can bet every TSA agent would be in on the class for radiation exposure.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 18, 2010 at 10:57:14 pm     #  

Like all the anti-smoking ban people said "If you don't like it, don't go".

posted by Ryan on Nov 18, 2010 at 10:58:18 pm     #  

"Like all the anti-smoking ban people said "If you don't like it, don't go".

or...

Like the pro-smoking ban people say "WHAT IF IT'S YOUR JOB!!!!!"

posted by MikeyA on Nov 19, 2010 at 01:32:42 pm     #   1 person liked this

As a person who flies frequently, I don't care about the machines. My next schtick is to pretend I'm a pre-op transsexual and asked to get patted down by a female TSA agent. I haven't decided whether sexual moans would be inappropriate while getting patted down.

posted by JJFad on Nov 19, 2010 at 01:37:03 pm     #  

I guess it all depends on whether you keep your body in good shape. Not that I have. But if you have, then you probably don't mind getting scanned. The scanners are probably like proctologists or gyns by now: the job is routine and they don't notice much.

posted by gemini on Nov 19, 2010 at 09:46:48 pm     #  

Let's be brutally honest. The reason Americans have to put up with this kind of thing is because it's not politically correct to "profile" the type of people most likely to commit an act of terrorism.
I'll bet El Al doesn't fondle their passengers, and they never get hijacked.

posted by JeepMaker on Nov 19, 2010 at 10:15:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

This is messed up:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news/

TSA forces cancer survivor to show prosthetic breast.
Some fliers with medical conditions call new airport security procedures 'humiliating'.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 20, 2010 at 01:24:47 pm     #  

Let's be brutally honest. The reason Americans have to put up with this kind of thing is because it's not politically correct to "profile" the type of people most likely to commit an act of terrorism.

Religious Fundamentalists? That's a tough one to profile by sight.

posted by dhr on Nov 20, 2010 at 02:22:44 pm     #  

"Religious Fundamentalists? That's a tough one to profile by sight."

You're either being intellectually dishonest, or your stupid. Your choice.

posted by JeepMaker on Nov 21, 2010 at 03:16:58 am     #  

JeepMaker, I think you're projecting.

Honestly, how would you profile terrorists? I'm curious.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:00:50 pm     #  

your stupid.

Ah, yes.

posted by dhr on Nov 21, 2010 at 01:50:16 pm     #  

And the conversation comes to a complete crash when dhr plays the "if it's white it ain't right" Jessie Jackson memorial race card.

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 21, 2010 at 02:55:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

Would you simply target all Muslims? Or just those that aren't dressed western enough?

Regardless, I just read this... disgusting:
http://gizmodo.com/5695522/tsa-screening-soaks-bladder-cancer-survivor-with-his-own-urine

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 21, 2010 at 04:22:20 pm     #  


Really? Little kids now? WTF??

posted by hunkytownsausage on Nov 21, 2010 at 06:14:32 pm     #  

Honestly, how would you profile terrorists? I'm curious.

I wouldn't. I'd get Israel to profile terrorists for me. After all, they know how and they have a successful track record.

posted by madjack on Nov 22, 2010 at 01:34:07 am     #  

"Religious Fundamentalists? That's a tough one to profile by sight."

Actually it's pretty easy because fundamentalists usually flaunt their religion unlike most people.

posted by MikeyA on Nov 22, 2010 at 01:20:51 pm     #  

Were the 9/11 hijackers easily identified as religious fundementalists?

posted by McCaskey on Nov 22, 2010 at 01:49:35 pm     #  

next question--what happens when run-of-the-mill-looking caucasion types are recruited by al-Queda (and you know they already have). What do you 'profile'?

posted by McCaskey on Nov 22, 2010 at 01:56:08 pm     #  

Richard Reid
Colleen Renee LaRose (aka "Jihad Jane")
Adam Pearlman
Muriel Degauque
Germaine Lindsay
Scott Roeder

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 22, 2010 at 02:10:37 pm     #  

Right.

And the 9/11 guys didn't board planes wearing robes and turbans. Polo shirts, dress shirts, jeans, blazers...all could have passed for professionals traveling for business or pleasure.

posted by McCaskey on Nov 22, 2010 at 02:56:03 pm     #  

Fred the Hedgehog was saying this morning on SPEDY that they should only be checking people coming from other countries. That nothing ever happens from Detroit to LA, etc.

The dude needs pulled.

posted by Ryan on Nov 22, 2010 at 03:07:56 pm     #  

"The dude needs pulled."

Or you need to buy a radio with a tuning knob.

Listen to AM 1470 ESPN radio talk about how great Vick is.

Ryan is the type of person who would smash the back of his hand with a hammer held by his other hand and then blame the hammer manufacturer.

posted by jr on Nov 22, 2010 at 05:31:43 pm     #   2 people liked this

I fall asleep to WSPD because I enjoy Coast to Coast. I wake up to Freds BS and it forces me to get up. I don’t listen to him for more than a few minutes and it is usually good for a laugh.

Sorry to have ruined your theory.

posted by Ryan on Nov 22, 2010 at 05:36:33 pm     #  

I say we turn airline security back over to the airlines themselves and give the victims of terrorist attacks a federal cause of action to sue the airlines for obscene amounts of money.

The government has proven to be inept with the situation and we are losing our rights in the process. I would rather have the choice as to which airline I get felt up or scanned by than having a government employee do it.

The strong, innovative airlines would survive and the weak and dependent would fail. Welcome to the real "free market." The airlines could create their own "safe to fly" lists and employ retina or fingerprint scans to verify your identity and tax money would not be spent on these ridiculous machines. How about a company that only allows people to fly who have undergone a multi-part background check they have to foot the bill for?

If the government wants to encourage it they could give airlines tax write offs for security expenses, provide security training to airlines, spend money on anti-terror R&D, etc.

Wouldn't you like to fly on an airline that could boast "The Safest Airline in America?"

posted by brainswell on Nov 22, 2010 at 06:05:56 pm     #  

I lean on the side that they are going a bit far with these scanners and pat downs.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 22, 2010 at 06:37:03 pm     #  

I wake up to Fred's BS

What a dreadful way to begin the day.

posted by McCaskey on Nov 22, 2010 at 07:54:02 pm     #  

Nov 22, 2010 - USA Today - Body-scanner makers spent millions on lobbying :

The companies with multimillion-dollar contracts to supply American airports with body-scanning machines more than doubled their spending on lobbying in the last five years and hired several high-profile former government officials to advance their causes in Washington, records show.

L-3 Communications, which has sold $39.7 million worth of the machines to the federal government, spent $4.3 million to influence Congress and federal agencies during the first nine months of this year, up from $2.1 million in 2005. Its lobbyists include Linda Daschle, a prominent Democratic figure in Washington, who is a former Federal Aviation Administration official.

Rapiscan Systems, meanwhile, has spent $271,500 on lobbying so far this year, compared with $80,000 five years earlier. It has faced criticism for hiring Michael Chertoff, the former Homeland Security secretary, who has been a prominent proponent of using scanners to foil terrorism.

"This is how business gets done in Washington," said Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics. "The revolving door provides corporations like these with a short cut to lawmakers" and other decision-makers.

posted by jr on Nov 22, 2010 at 08:27:12 pm     #   1 person liked this

http://gawker.com/5695857/who-got-groped-by-the-tsa-this-weekend

I think some of you might find the pornographer "FurryGirl" video funny. She strips down to her underwear in front of the TSA.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 22, 2010 at 08:33:44 pm     #  

Actually it's pretty easy because fundamentalists usually flaunt their religion unlike most people.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 22, 2010 at 09:27:04 pm     #   1 person liked this

Yep, the above is exactly what everyone saw on those planes that Tuesday morning... according to the above "let's profile everything!" crowd.

not.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 22, 2010 at 10:47:04 pm     #  

“I didn’t really expect her to touch my vagina through my pants.”

http://www.kirotv.com/news/25852381/detail.html

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 23, 2010 at 07:39:02 pm     #  

Mythbusters' Adam Savage: "What the fuck, TSA? You saw my junk but you missed this?" (Hold up 2 12 inch long razor blades)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 24, 2010 at 01:00:45 am     #  

Former Homeland Security Secretary uses his connections to 'convince' his former colleagues why they are necessary.

"Michael Chertoff, while he was the Head of Homeland Security under Bush, advocated and pushed for installation and implementation of these new full-body scanners at our airports. Once he was out of "public service", Chertoff's consulting company (Read: Lobbying Company) landed as a client (Surprise!), Rapsican, the company that makes the scanners. He is now a much richer person, I'm sure."

http://www.wcvarones.com/2010/11/tsas-nude-scanners-former-homeland.html

side note:

I got a pat-down last month while traveling for work (they didn't have the full body scanners, just the metal detectors, but got pulled aside randomly I suppose). It wouldn't have been much of anything if the TSA officer hadn't put their hands down and around my pant waist... awkward! And while you are felt up by a member of your same sex, the TSA agent had me lift up my shirt to expose my stomach in front of the dudes that "profiled" me... so in effect exposing my body to them. I'm just a little more modest than the "FurryGirl" mentioned above.

Next week I will be back at the Detroit airport and plan to opt-out of the full body scanners if they are in place. I'll let you guys know how it goes and if it was any different than last month's pat-down.

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 24, 2010 at 02:11:29 am     #  

Are we to believe that if all these precautions were in place on 9/11, they would have stopped the planes from being hyjacked? Does anyone really think that if there is another attack it will be with a plane? Didn't they use box cutters to hyjack the planes? I'm no smuggling expert, but I've seen box cutters that I could hide on my body to get through a "pat down". Watch a show about prisons and see how those inmates take everyday items and make weapons out of them. It's amazingly disgusting, but informative.
My main point is that there is no way to protect people from terrorists. That's why they call them terrorists. Those sickos come up with the most horrifying ways to terrorize people.
If, instead of planes on 9/11, imagine for a moment that they were able to train a child or young adult to be a suicide bomber. What then? Metal detectors, pat downs, and full body scanners for grade school children? Middle and High Schoolers?
There is a certain level of risk involved with everything and everyone. No one and no place is safe 100% of the time. I think that the procedures and policies put in place for airports is way too much to exchange for the little amount of security that it provides.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 24, 2010 at 04:23:57 am     #  

LOL I love it. The anti-profiling crowd is up in arms. Profiling works. When was the last terrorism incident on an Israeli flight?

I love how they say profiling is a violation of civil rights yet feeling up a paying customer isn't.

posted by MikeyA on Nov 24, 2010 at 01:01:20 pm     #  

posted by INeedCoffee on Nov 24, 2010 at 01:55:54 pm     #  

The only problem socialists have with Bushs' Homeland Security model is it didn't go far enough. Of course they didn't roll back any of the stuff they so loudly railed against, and they're not going to, either. And, I hear Gitmo is still open, BTW.

posted by Wulf on Nov 24, 2010 at 04:28:16 pm     #  

This one is particularly great.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/traveller-wears-bikini-th_n_788127.html

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 24, 2010 at 07:19:37 pm     #  

What is especially disheartening is how this issue has, like seemingly everything else in the American public sphere, been reduced to simplistic "us v. them" and "liberal v. conservative" terms. The pundits could care less since the all fly private jets. Like every other news item, they forget their positions five minutes ago to angle for an attack on the other side. Conservatives are all the sudden up in arms about these invasive searches while they said nothing all through Bush's systematic dismantling of the 4th Amendment via warrantless wiretapping. Liberals are silent now about airport security, the extension of the Patriot Act and the continued operation of Gitmo because Obama is in office.

How much freedom Americans are willing to give up for a bit more security is an issue that deserves more thoughtfulness than the 10 second sound bites we are getting on cable TV.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:23:29 pm     #  

I have to disagree on that. Another board I frequent is 90% liberal and most are none too happy. I say suck it up or fill er' up!

posted by Ryan on Nov 24, 2010 at 10:48:47 pm     #  

The hijacking on 9/11 could have also been prevented by just having locking cockpits.
The planes weren't blown up, they were hijacked and driven into crashing.
I say drop the screening etc. back down to previous levels and make the cockpits sealed off from passengers.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 24, 2010 at 11:59:03 pm     #  

College aged kid went through in a speedo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/speedo-tsa-_n_788137.html

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 25, 2010 at 03:36:36 pm     #  

This one is long, no sound, but kind of infuriating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhnZlmLGK8

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 25, 2010 at 04:10:15 pm     #  

El Al airlines doesn't have a problem keeping terrorists off their planes. Maybe it's time to ask the Israelis' what they're doing right.

posted by Wulf on Nov 25, 2010 at 06:35:22 pm     #  

Great post Ace

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 26, 2010 at 06:17:45 am     #  

El Al airlines doesn't have a problem keeping terrorists off their planes. Maybe it's time to ask the Israelis' what they're doing right.

Watch Fox much? This is the latest way to twist airport security issues into a political sword. Hannity et al keep saying "We should follow the Israeli model, but those danged liberals won't let us profile." As I mentioned above, Israel has ONE major airport that serves 10 million a year. O'Hare serves 80 million a year. But if you want a major government expansion in the form of a beefed up TSA and Homeland Security so we can follow the "Israeli model", how much more in taxes are you willing to accept to pay for it?

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 26, 2010 at 11:07:41 am     #  

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 26, 2010 at 02:38:20 pm     #  

I LOVE IT! I don't think the 4th protects against this particular search, but I love the shirt.

posted by JJFad on Nov 26, 2010 at 02:39:51 pm     #  

El Al has a record of ZERO hijackings, which goes back how far--since its' inception? That would mean long, long before Fox News ever went on the air. The idea of my 5 year old niece, or my grandmother being stripped searched and fondled because some whiners have nothing better to do than trying to find out "how have I been picked on today", is thoroughly disgusting to me. I say-->profile away!

posted by Wulf on Nov 26, 2010 at 04:19:06 pm     #  

El Al has a record of ZERO hijackings, which goes back how far--since its' inception?

Wrong. There was a hijacking in 1968 that was considered the first modern airplane hijacking. It went on for five weeks. Don't you Google before you post?

http://terrorism.about.com/od/originshistory/p/1968Hijacking.htm

And a guy managed to get on one of their planes with a knife about 8 years ago:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2486935.stm

My point is that Israeli security is not scalable to our size country. And if it was, how much are you willing to pay for it?

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 26, 2010 at 06:32:21 pm     #  

Ok, we'll use your numbers-2-since 1968. Two, in the last 42 years, indicate a procedure well worth trying out, as any reasonable person would agree. It could easily be implemented in a few airports, which could equal Israeli levels of passengers, since that seems to be so important. That "scalable' argument is fallacious anyway-the US has larger numbers of everything than Israel does, including scheming criminals bent on destruction. We have more airplanes, more passengers, more airline personnel, more flight attendants, more baggage handlers, more pilots, and so on. So now if we have more TRAINED security officers, the world as we know it will somehow implode--and probably by tomorrow we'll be cooking over campfires on the ground? Gimme a break.

posted by Wulf on Nov 26, 2010 at 07:38:39 pm     #  

Ok, we'll use your numbers-2-since 1968.

Those aren't my numbers, those are the numbers. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

And your own explanation is exactly my point: we have a lot more passengers to cover than Israel to cover. It would cost a lot of money to train and pay enough soldiers (that's what Israel uses) to cover all our airports. So you have no problem with a major expansion of the federal government to take care of this, right? Or maybe conscription, which they also have in Israel. Or should we use private business, which is guaranteed to cost even more?

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 26, 2010 at 09:55:33 pm     #  

OK, THE numbers....which still remain at the same, enormous sum--->2(two). What major expansion of the government--use the people they have now, and if need be, add soldiers, which are already on the payroll. Private business is guaranteed to cost more, than a government run program????? What should I google first-the Post Office, an efficiently run government entity if ever there was one, second only to the department of sanitation. That's the place where you go to work at 7, and your done at noon, with 8 hours pay. How's that for efficiency? You are right as rain-use soldiers to provide airport security and screen for troublemakers.

posted by Wulf on Nov 26, 2010 at 10:34:40 pm     #  

The madness continues (with video):

http://www.prisonplanet.com/mother-kept-in-glass-cage-for-almost-an-hour-by-tsa-for-resisting-over-breast-milk.html

Nothing like being imprisoned over made up rules by Barney Fife clones...

posted by oldhometown on Dec 01, 2010 at 04:08:37 pm     #  

Went through security this morning at DTW. No pat-down and no x-ray machine for me but I would say about half the travelers were told to go through x-ray. I might have simply been lucky... Don't think it was because I got upgraded to first class.

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 01, 2010 at 04:29:08 pm     #  

about half the travelers were told to go through x-ray

And no one complained, right? I'm not surprised. The stupid sheeple will do as they're told every single time - no questions, no complaints.

The people of the United States are pathetic.

posted by madjack on Dec 02, 2010 at 07:25:17 am     #  

And the conversation comes to a complete crash when dhr plays the "if it's white it ain't right" Jessie Jackson memorial race card.

Strange. Looks like the thread took off after my post, dbw666!

posted by dhr on Dec 02, 2010 at 08:32:45 pm     #  

Just for your information, Toledo Express will be receiving their full body scanner sometime next week and operational by Christmas.

posted by avinsurer on Dec 02, 2010 at 10:49:20 pm     #  

Madjack im sure there were dissenters. Im not the only one who isnt cool with going through those machines. I just didnt hang around long enough to see anyone refuse. Was just happy to go through the metal detector and didnt want to hang around long enough to attract attention or get screwed with. You can opt out by simply stating such.

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 03, 2010 at 06:52:21 pm     #  

On my way back home tomorrow. Hope im as lucky

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 03, 2010 at 06:53:02 pm     #  

Flight home was just as uneventful, which was great.

In other news, NJ is toying with having the machines and pat-downs banned: http://www.senatenj.com/index.php/doherty/nj-legislation-bans-tsa-scanners-and-criminalizes-unreasonable-searches-and-invasive-pat-downs/7435?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+senatenj/doherty+(New+Jersey+Senate+Republicans+%C2%BB+Senator+Mike+Doherty+(R-23))

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 06, 2010 at 06:07:17 pm     #  

Scanners installed at Toledo Express as of today!

Yippie!

posted by 6th_Floor on Dec 17, 2010 at 11:05:54 am     #  

Now riders on the DC Metro are going to be searched randomly. 4th Amendment continues its downward spiral.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/dc/2010/12/metro-start-random-bag-searches

posted by Ace_Face on Dec 17, 2010 at 01:25:25 pm     #  

Well, the 10th amendment is ignored...

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

...and the 2nd Amendment is always in jeopardy with the political winds of the day. Why should the 4th amendment be any different?

posted by oldhometown on Dec 17, 2010 at 02:22:43 pm     #  

Oldhometown well when our President thinks the Constitution is a "living document" that a bunch of grumpy old white guys wrote (who he would probley tell to get in the back) what if any of the Amendments matter anymore?

Apparently the interstate commerce clause effects prostate exams!

posted by dbw8906 on Dec 17, 2010 at 03:31:06 pm     #  

DBW,

Most of the modern understanding of the Commerce Clause comes from the 1942 case Wickard v. Filburn. That decision was unanimous. BOTH parties have incessantly chipped away at out rights from the Federal level since the end of the Civil War.

Oldhometown,

The notion that liberals want to gut the 2nd is ridiculous propaganda made up by the NRA to sell more guns. No one loves a Democratic president more than American gun and ammo manufacturers. Proof? Look at S&W and Ruger's stock since Obama took office. Ruger has been tossing cash around like Eliot Spitzer at a whore house.

The fourth should be different because as Americans we are presumed innocent, and warrantless searches are contradictory to that principle.

posted by brainswell on Dec 17, 2010 at 05:21:29 pm     #  

The notion that liberals want to gut the 2nd is ridiculous propaganda made up by the NRA to sell more guns.

I made no mention of liberals and conservatives in my statement. I only said "political winds". A big shooting happens when some nut goes berzerk and suddenly people want to ban all guns so we're "safer".

While I'll agree that the "ban all guns" crowd probably leans left, I was commenting more on the hysteria that surrounds firearms in this country, the idiots who want to ban all firearms, and the basic lack of education why the 2nd Amendment exists in the first place.

posted by oldhometown on Dec 17, 2010 at 05:32:49 pm     #  

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/20/aol-investigation-no-proof-tsa-scanners-are-safe/

"The Transportation Security Administration says that when working properly, the backscatter Advance Imaging Technology X-ray scanners emit an infinitesimal, virtually harmless amount of radiation.

The problem is that the TSA offers no proof that anyone is checking to see if the machines are "working properly."

The TSA ticks off a litany of groups that it says are involved with determining and ensuring the safety of the controversial devices, including:
The Food and Drug Administration
The U.S. Army Public Health Command
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory
The Health Physics Society

However, AOL News has found that those organizations say they have no responsibility for the continuing safety of the alternative to TSA's grope."

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 23, 2010 at 04:46:40 pm     #  

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/20/aol-investigation-no-proof-tsa-scanners-are-safe/

"The Transportation Security Administration says that when working properly, the backscatter Advance Imaging Technology X-ray scanners emit an infinitesimal, virtually harmless amount of radiation.

The problem is that the TSA offers no proof that anyone is checking to see if the machines are "working properly."

The TSA ticks off a litany of groups that it says are involved with determining and ensuring the safety of the controversial devices, including:
The Food and Drug Administration
The U.S. Army Public Health Command
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory
The Health Physics Society

However, AOL News has found that those organizations say they have no responsibility for the continuing safety of the alternative to TSA's grope."

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 23, 2010 at 04:46:41 pm     #  

woops! double post!

posted by toledolen_ on Dec 23, 2010 at 04:46:55 pm     #