I've posted this on my blog but NBC 24 will have a story at 6 about a possible COSI bailout and/or third levy...
COSI bailout?
Comments ... #
NBC 24 is reporting that Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner and Lucas County Commissioner Tina Skeldon Wozniak met today with COSI board members to discuss keeping Toledo's Center of Science & Industry open for another year -- and then placing a third levy request on the ballot.
If any taxpayer money is used it's criminal, but it should definitely not involve county money. Let Toledo fund this failure. But of course, county money will be used. After all, the other communities in Lucas County exist to help fund Toledo's pet projects. That's why it's called the People's Republic of Toledo County.
Toledo County is simply an extension of Toledo City Council government. Two of the three county commissioners and the county treasurer are former Toledo City Council representatives. The other county commissioner represents the Blade. So the other communities are doomed to support the moronic ideas vomited by the mental defective public officials that call Toledo home. That's why when you move out of Toledo, you must also leave the county.
The thing is, the imbeciles that are going to steal taxpayer money to keep COSI open are the same group of people or are of the same local mindset that believe the new I-280 bridge, the domestic partnership registry, and winning the most liveable-city award will attract new business to Toledo. These people are grasping at straws. It's desperation time, so local officials are throwing Hail Mary passes.
Here's the NBC 24 story
Tax dollars are being discussed. (This will be the topic of my radio show Tuesday.)
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 19, 2007 at 07:19:54 pm #
While I voted for the COSI levy, a majority of the voters said NO. I respect that vote and it should be honored in the tradition of American Democracy. For the Mayor to go behind the voters back and provide ANY TAXPAYER monies towards something they most obviously have said NO to is akin to saying to your constituants..."Go ____ yourself. I know how better to spend your money".
Mayor Finkbeiner, If you take this path towards "Strong arming" the voters and disenfranchise their votes, you are violating the spirit and rule of the Constitution. IMO.
We voted to have a Stong Mayor...Not a Strong Arm Mayor. Guess I will look for property outside Toledo.
Well...there ya have it. Another example of "How the West was won" mentality with our leadership.. I've laid out some new ideas on my blog...and I'm starting to recall another great idea..perhaps only months ahead of it's time.
Stay tuned Chad. And, stop looking for leadership in all the wrong places.
"We voted to have a Stong Mayor"
Yes, the residents of Toledo did, but not Sylvania, Maumee, Oregon, Waterville, etc. Remember, these politicians are trying to get the county to subsidize COSI, but this is a Toledo screw-up, so let Toledoans pay for it.
"Guess I will look for property outside Toledo."
No, you need to look for property outside Lucas County.
"Guess I will look for property outside Toledo."
"No, you need to look for property outside Lucas County."
I'm quite certain that there is another village somewhere that is need of an idiot. If you are not willing to support one of Toledo's most unique educational establishments, then perhaps Toledo, and even more, Lucas County, would be better off without you in it.
I guess I just don't get it. What is the collective burr that is up all your collective asses about COSI? How much money have the citizens of Lucas county given to the Toledo Zoo? Or TARTA, or the Metro parks. I don't hear all sorts of rants about them. Is there something that COSI in particular did to piss you off so much?
If they want to run for another levy win or fail, so be it, that is their choice. To suggest that, if the "Mayor [is to] to go behind the voters back and provide ANY TAXPAYER monies towards something they most obviously have said NO to" is a pretty clear indication of your naivety about American politics.
Tom Tom, I'm not so sure it's a burr about your COSI. As a relatively new resident of the Toledo area, I get the thought there is a general feeling of negativity about the region here. Many times people have asked why we moved to Toledo. The implication is more on the "why toledo" I have to "scratch my head" as you say to understand why there is such a low esteme of this area.
I don't understand why this community would not support a COSI science museum. It appeared their levy monies were very, very small, yet your tarta service and parks were supported very much so. It is no surprise (while not the only reason) that America lacks in science understanding compared to the rest of the world. If you dont support local understandings, how can you expect your children to learn to love the sciences?
Well I think it's time our Mayor did something to save COSI. My two kids love the place and are heart broken that their favorite museum is closing.
I'd like Maggie, and the rest of you COSI Bashers,to try to explain to a 5 and 7 year old why people want COSI to close. It just makes no sense to not support one of the few downtown Toledo destinations that is family friendly and is a positive addition to downtown Toledo. I hope our Mayor finds whatever support necessary to keep this "gem" of Toledo operating for our children and our city.
--a Proud Toledo parent
COSI 14
AGAINST 42574 51.15%
FOR 40661 48.85%Not exactly an "overwhelming" defeat of the measure. But that isn't the way politics works. It was "defeated" at the polls by a majority of a minority of registered voters. Carty may have dozens of people asking him to do this, but he should listen to those who actually voted, not those who are second-guessing the result. So what if people are having second thoughts. When it comes time to vote they won't show up anyways. It will be defeated again. Those who don't want to be taxed will always show up at the polls.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 20, 2007 at 12:28:48 am #
Wow, AuntRe, your first comment to this site, and it's such an intelligent argument in support of COSI. You must have spent hours working on your viewpoint. With your amazing insight on the issue, I guess now I support the politicians' plan to steal taxpayer money to support COSI. Thank you so much for making me see the bigger picture.
What's really the matter, AuntRe? Don't you have any friends on MySpace?
With mental geniuses like AuntRe, I don't understand why Toledo is ranked near the bottom in job growth.
Metro Toledo ranked fifth-worst among 200 major cities nationally in a job-growth study released yesterday by the Milken Institute, a California think tank, and Greenstreet Partners.
That's 196 out of 200, AuntRe. That's a bottom feeder. It says Metro Toledo, but we know that Toledo/Lucas County is what's really dragging the metro area down, since Toledo/Lucas County is where most of the population and jobs exist.
Maybe the same kind of jackals that promote and prop up failed projects like COSI are most likely responsible for Toledo's bottom-dweller status for job-growth. The same kind of thinking has been rooted in Toledo/Lucas County for too many years.
Hey, how about that continuing population decline for Toledo, AuntRe?1970 : 383,818
1980 : 354,635
1990 : 332,943
2000 : 313,619
2006 est : 298,446Toledo's population loss since 2000 was the 10th-fastest among 258 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000 people.
Near the bottom year after year for job growth and losing population at a rapid rate while the U.S. population increases, which means Toledo's population decline is really worse than what's reported. Does this sound like a city of the future?
From the 2006 story about Toledo's continuing population decline, Toledo City Councilman Frank Szollosi said :"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
What was that?"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
A Toledo-based politician said what?"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
I'm amazed the Toledo Blade allowed Frank's statement to get printed in the newspaper.AuntRe, if you forgot what Szollosi said, his statement was :
"It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
So let's ignore the election results from earlier this month and use taxpayer money to keep alive what should be a DNR. Who cares that wasting taxpayer money like this will bring more embarrassment to Toledo/Lucas County?With a declining population and horrible job-growth status, how can antics like those which may occur at the city or county level to support COSI encourage outside business people to invest in Toledo/Lucas County?
I think we can turn Toledo around if we install more pride signs and enter more frivolous essay contests.
Mr. jr.,
I think it is this kind of personal idea bashing that does not make for an intelligent discussion of the matters of the Toledo area. While this site is titled (musing about Lake Erie West and beyond) is often seems to lower itself to what might in person be seemed, "loud yelling about lake Erie West and beyond". In this country you have SO many things available, yet you seem to complain about nearly all those things and freedoms you are given. I hope for a more thoughtful discussion in the future.
I wonder if your comments to "AuntRe" will encourage more dialog, or simply push her ideas to the side so more liked minded people will encourage your ideas. This is not musing/discussion about ideas but only single minded "ranting" with no thoughtfull purpose.
Nice deflection tactic, bassman. AuntRe's only idea was: "I'm quite certain that there is another village somewhere that is need of an idiot."
bassam, I provided factual data above about the reality of Toledo, and you say nothing about it.
- Metro Toledo ranked fifth-worst among 200 major cities nationally in job-growth.
- Toledo's population loss since 2000 was the 10th-fastest among 258 U.S. cities with populations of more than 100,000 people.
- "It's an indication that taxes are too high in Toledo."
I for one hope that Carty and our County Commissioners do the right thing and help Cosi to continure in Toledo. As a home schooling Mom, Cosi is a fantastic resource for our kids. Not just my kids, but for all the parents in our home schooling network. Sometimes I think we loose site of what is really important in a community.
The poster-JR talked about taxes being to high in Toledo. If that is the case, why did voters support TARTA, the MetroParks and the Library so much. Their collective tax burden was more than ten times what Cosi Was asking for. Would it have been to much to ask for voters to support a kid and family friendly museum in the downtown? Quality of life is more than just "low taxes". What do you want your community to be? Honestly, of all things to be complaining about, Cosi seems to be small potatoes on the scale of our government (local or federal) waste. Put aside your simplistic ideas of no-new-taxes for a moment and think about what is important for a new generation of technology workers. I'll give you a clue ... it's excitement and interest in the sciences. That is something that Cosi gives our kids. I guess we could be a wonderful community of assembly line workers, all 20,000 of us, if our declining population stats continue....posted by amberj1980 on Nov 20, 2007 at 01:16:09 am #
maybe you shouldnt have voted for carty. just a thought.
posted by jhostetler on Nov 20, 2007 at 01:21:24 am #
"Toledo Zoo? Or TARTA, or the Metro parks."
tomtom, how many Metro Parks are in Toledo and how many are scattered around elsewhere in Lucas County?
TARTA serves more than just Toledo.
Believe it or not, it's called the Lucas County library system because the libraries exist in other communities in the county besides Toledo.
I've mentioned before the study that proves that the Toledo Zoo has been a good economic investment for Lucas County, yet no such data exists for COSI that I'm aware of.
About the Toledo Zoo :
- Over the last ten years, each levy dollar the Zoo received has returned $6.50 in LOCAL economic activity.
- From 1996-2005, The Toledo Zoo had a $664 million economic impact in Lucas County.
- The zoo's annual impact on the local economy is estimated at 70 million dollars.
- People from outside the zoo's primary market area spend 22 million dollars per year at local businesses when visiting the zoo.
And I've asked :
- What is COSI's annual impact on the local economy?
- How much money is spent locally each year by people like you neighborinMI who visit COSI from outside COSI's primary market area?
- What has been COSI's economic impact on Lucas County since COSI began in 1997?
It's invalid to lump COSI in the same class as TARTA, the library system, the metro parks, and the zoo.
If you TOLEDOANS want to support COSI, then you support it. Make it a CITY levy and not a county levy. You encourage Carty to figure out a way to get TOLEDOANS to support COSI, but Carty should not get residents in the other communities to support COSI.
Why in the hell should taxpayer money be taken from residents in other communities to support a downtown Toledo project that got $10 million to start, pays $1 in rent, and currently pays no utilities, yet it still cannot survive? Residents in other communities can voluntarily support COSI with a membership of some kind.
bassman said : "I don't understand why this community would not support a COSI science museum."Where do you get that idea? We support a hands-on science museum that is 100% sustainable with private money. Are you saying that this area does not have the intellectual horsepower to figure out a way to operate a hands-on science museum without taxpayer support? I believe this area can do it without taxpayer support, but it may not be feasible to operate such a museum in downtown Toledo. I've already chewed my cabbage on this idea in another thread.
Does the Ann Arbor Hands on Museum survive on taxpayer money?
Dipshits like AuntRe explain a lot about Toledo's cultural failures. You can't keep increasing the taxation upon a shrinking tax base. There is a logical culmination to that, that any sane adult can see. The logical culmination is cultural and economic collapse, with concomitant increases in crime, poverty and overall social depravity. She's either mentally retarded for not realizing that, or she's just a bitch wants Toledo to roil in economic agony. In my darkest thoughts, I don't wish that upon Toledoans. Why then, perhaps, does she?
The COSI votes showed quite firmly that fully half of the people who show up to the polls are Neo-Communists to some degree. They no longer believe in the tenets of Capitalism, and use the ballot box to steal money. I find their lack of shame to be incomprehensible, and in the same way I find a similar lack of shame in violent criminals to be incomprehensible. They do great damage and either don't care, or are glad they did it.
THE BALLOT BOX IS NOT YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO STEAL MONEY FROM YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS.
If you want to support COSI, buy their tickets, souvenirs and food. If you really don't understand how that works, attend university and ask a few professors about what "capitalism" is.
Your thieving ways or stupidity simply disgust me.
"why did voters support TARTA, the MetroParks and the Library so much."
amberj1980, see my previous comment.
"Cosi seems to be small potatoes ..."As mentioned the other day :
The Center of Science and Industry Museum began 10 years ago as the rebirth of [Toledo's] festival marketplace. The retail venture failed and the city sought to try something else to bring people downtown. State lawmakers chipped in $10 million to the effort, paying for the renovation of the former retail building to a children’s science museum. The money was enough to fix the building, but the museum did not make enough money to stay open on its own.
$10 million is small potatoes, eh?
amberj1980 said:As a home schooling Mom, Cosi is a fantastic resource for our kids. Not just my kids, but for all the parents in our home schooling network.
How so? Thus far, amberj1980, your argument for COSI is severely weak because your argument is based too much on what seems like "feelings."
But here's your chance to convince a small portion of the public. How is COSI a fantastic resource for your home-schooled kids? How often do you visit COSI? What scientific or mathematical assignments involve COSI? How does COSI fit into the home-schooling curriculum? What kind of impact has COSI had on your home-schooled kids? Has their interest in science and math changed?
Start a new article with lots of detail about how you and/or your network uses COSI in a home-schooling program. Or contact the Toledo City Paper or the Toledo Free Press about your use of COSI for home-schooling. They would probably publish your story.
You've got to give a lot more detail if you want to convince the public that COSI is equally important as the public and private schools, the libraries, and the Internet. After all, some of us managed to acquire an interest in math and science without access to museums.
Were the home-schooled parents who use COSI in their curriculum featured anywhere in COSI's promotion of this month's levy? If not, why not?
One fact I keep brining up is this from a November 2006 Toledo Blade story :COSI officials say they need the tax increase to pass to relieve the squeeze of increasing maintenance costs and declining attendance. Gate receipts have steadily declined since 2001, sinking to 211,000 last year.
How do you account for this decline since 2001? Quit blaming the small percentage of the eligible voting public who voted NO on the levy and try blaming the bonehead management that has run COSI into the ground. And did you do your part to encourage people to go to the polls and vote for the COSI levy?
amberj1980, if you believe that Cosi is a fantastic resource for your kids, then you would support a local hands-on science museum regardless of where it was located, right? If it was located in West Toledo or Maumee or northern Wood County or some location where it had a chance of doing better attendance-wise, that would be fine, right? If it's truly about the education of our kids, then the location of a hands-on science museum does not matter, correct?
Cosi blows, I went there a few times back when I was younger and I'm pretty sure everything was either broken, or in the process of being fixed each time I visited.
My issue with COSI is that it is exactally the same today as it was when it opened. Even the zoo changes and brings in special exhibits.
Why should the voters approve money for COSI to just do things exactally as they've always done things? Where are the special exhibits that would draw people (even those without kids) down just to see it?
COSI needs to relocate out of downtown to somewhere it can expand and grow and it needs to start offering new things and special events, because the same old same old just won't get people to keep coming back.
I'd like Maggie, and the rest of you COSI Bashers,to try to explain to a 5 and 7 year old why people want COSI to close. It just makes no sense to not support one of the few downtown Toledo destinations that is family friendly and is a positive addition to downtown Toledo. I hope our Mayor finds whatever support necessary to keep this "gem" of Toledo operating for our children and our city.--a Proud Toledo parent
posted by janathome on Nov 19, 2007 at 11:27:55 pm #
I'm not a "COSI basher" but I am rather critical of their financial plan - or, rather, their lack of a stable one that targets and attains self-sufficiency. I happen to think the Ann Arbor Hands On Museum does a lot of things that COSI could learn from - but I don't know if they've even bothered to examine other successful operations - and they haven't identified what they're going to do differently so they don't continue their failed financial model.
As for how to explain to your children 'why people want COSI to close' - wow! What a learning opportunity!
Since you asked:
I'd start by explaining, in words they can understand, that just because they like something doesn't mean that everyone else likes it as well. I'd also explain that just because they were willing to pay for something doesn't mean that everyone else was willing to pay for it. And then I'd explain that when they want something, they can make a decision to pay for it or go to see it, etc, but that doesn't give them the right to make everyone else foot the bill for them.
I'd probably use a movie or candy as an example - that just because they like snickers or transformers doesn't mean that the only candy or movie that is available is those two options. Further, that it's wrong to make other people pay just so they can have their snickers or go to see the transformers.
And that many people decided it wasn't as important to them to pay for COSI as it was to pay for MetroParks, TARTA, schools and everything else that gets charged to the property taxes - or the other things they'd rather spend their money on.
You could also explain that the result of a bad plan is that you close. It's not the "people want COSI to close," it's that they expect COSI to be good enough to support itself. And if it's not willing to do what it takes to be self-suffient, it deserves to close.
You could talk about how your family sets priorities for spending and explain how all other families in the area do the same thing.
You could talk about how their attendance was declining since 2001 and the impact that had on their finances.
You could explain about democracy and votes and how this country abides by the decision, even when they don't like it.
You could talk about a lot of things and educate your kids while helping them understand what happened and why, instead of feel sad or pity because something they like might not be around for much longer.
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 20, 2007 at 09:10:52 am #
We live outside of Toledo and our family went to COSI at least once or twice a year.
As a parent of a 7 & 10 year old, I explained everything that Maggie suggested to my kids.
Except that I told them that it was okay to FEEL disappointed, sad and frustrated. They get how the democratice process works AND they are not disconnected from their feelings or the feelings of others.
You can do both.
Back to COSI, I feel disappointed but I'm not surprised a similiar thing has happened in Columbus with their COSI.
I tend to agree with oldsendbyrdy that the rejection of the levy wasn't a landslide.
"... rejection of the levy wasn't a landslide."
But was the levy rejected by a landside outside Toledo? Has the detailed voting data been released yet, so we can see how the individual communities voted on the COSI levy? I have a feeling the COSI levy barely passed among Toledo voters, but it was thrashed in the other communities.
I have two children, ages 3 and 5. We took them to COSI exactly once.
Of course I want them to learn about science and of course I love for them to experience science hands-on. But when we visited COSI, it wasn't too clean, many of the exhibits were the same as when the place opened, and frankly, it was empty and more than a little creepy.
I voted for the Metroparks and the library. I wouldn't vote for COSI because I didn't feel the place was well-managed, and I wasn't about to throw good money after bad.
Not that I disagree with you, but
" many of the exhibits were the same as when the place opened,"
How would you know that if you've been there "exactly once"?
I didn't vote for COSI. I hasn't changed in years, granted I have been there once in the last 5 years but nothing has lead me to believe that something new is going on. If it has I have never heard about anything different. I use the metro parks on a daily basis. Library, when I need and though I don't visit the zoo as much as I should...I know people who do and at least I know there is an effort of change and improvement. I can't say the same for COSI.
Precinct by precinct votes are available here
Unofficial (hopefully with no typos)
Harding 138 against, 57 for
Jerusalem 674 against, 363 for
Maumee 1893 against, 1500 for
Monclova 1755 against, 1398 for
Harbor View tied 16 each
Oregon 3347 against, 2407 for
Ottawa Hills 461 against, 1072 for
Providence 771 against, 295 for
Richfield 348 against, 158 for
Spencer 274 against, 125 for
Springfield 2912 against, 2337 for
Swanton 546 against, 236 for
Sylvania Township 3507 against, 3342 for
City of Sylvania 2209 against 2638 for
Toledo 21,375 against, 22,958 for
Waterville Township 2037 against, 1525 for
Washington Township 311 against, 234 forTotal: 42,574 against and 40,661 for
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 20, 2007 at 11:20:44 am #
You'd think the University of Toledo with some $170 million in endowments or Owens with $820+ k would be interested in a waterfront educational facility and/or a partnership with COSI. It would be a show of community support and goodwill, would make sense marketing-wise, etc.
Or the facility could be made into something like this:
http://www.usbg.gov/About-Us.cfm
It's one of the more interesting places to visit in DC.
charlatan, I think COSI has already looked into partnering with local schools based upon these stories from a year ago.
Nov 8, 2006 Blade story :
COSI has tried to change directions, away from the tourist-attraction model, by partnering with local schools and colleges for educational opportunities.
Dec 27, 2006 Blade story :Dr. Walsh is talking to the Toledo Zoo and the University of Toledo to form partnerships for science education that might help fund some COSI operations. But so far, the talk has been very general. “Right now, all we’ve really done is have some brainstorms,’’ Anne Baker, Toledo Zoo executive director, said yesterday.
The question for COSI is, what happened to these partnership ideas and discussions?Is it possible that the Toledo Zoo, UT, and Owens have zero interest in partnering with COSI?
Has COSI brainstormed with companies like SSOE, First Solar, Root Learning, and many other similar businesses located in the region?
Billy... I've been there more then once and yes many of the exhibits are exactally the same as they were when it first opened.
Taken from Maggie’s numbers (hopefully no calculation errors):
Unofficial (hopefully with no typos)
Harding 138 against, 57 for Total 195 70.77% against 29.23% for
Jerusalem 674 against, 363 for Total 1037 70.00% against 30.00% for
Maumee 1893 against, 1500 for Total 3393 55.79% against 44.21% for
Monclova 1755 against, 1398 for Total 3153 55.66% against 44.34% for
Harbor View tied 16 each Total 32 50.00% against 50.00% for
Oregon 3347 against, 2407 for Total 5754 58.16% against 41.84% for
Ottawa Hills 461 against, 1072 for Total 1533 30.07% against 69.93% for
Providence 771 against, 295 for Total 1066 72.33% against 27.67% for
Richfield 348 against, 158 for Total 506 68.77% against 31.23% for
Spencer 274 against, 125 for Total 399 68.67% against 31.33% for
Springfield 2912 against, 2337 for Total 5249 55.48% against 44.52% for
Swanton 546 against, 236 for Total 782 69.82% against 30.18% for
Sylvania Township 3507 against, 3342 for Total 6849 51.20% against 48.80% for
City of Sylvania 2209 against 2638 for Total 4847 45.58%against 54.42% for
Toledo 21,375 against, 22,958 for Total 44,333 48.21% against 51.79% for
Waterville Township 2037 against, 1525 for Total 3562 57.19% against 42.81% for
Washington Township 311 against, 234 for Total 545 57.06% against 42.94% for
Total: 42,574 against and 40,661 forToledo voted for it with a 1583 margin vs. 1913 for the county as a total against it.
In almost every town and township the levy for COSI was defeated (though in most cases not “overwhelmingly”). Only Ottawa Hills, the City of Sylvania, and Toledo voted a majority in favor of the COSI levy. Can anyone explain to me why Ottawa Hills and the City of Syvlania would be in favor of the levy? The explanation I usually hear is that it is people who aren’t responsible for paying real-estate taxes. Is this true in Ottawa Hills and the City of Sylvania? Is pressure coming from the movers and shakers in these towns to get COSI funding until another levy can be organized? One thing is apparent: the smaller towns and townships were overwhelmingly against any increase in taxation.
I am glad that you provided these numbers, Maggie. I changed my mind at the last moment, and voted against all the levies. But I have to wonder why the upper middle class in Ottawa Hills voted for the levy. Is this village (while having a high per capita income) overwhelmingly “liberal”? Do they actually believe in the value of taxation, and are willing to see their poorer brethren bear the burden? If they want COSI why don’t they dig into their stocks and bonds and support it? Or why don’t they offer a place for COSI in Ottawa Hills, and support it with their public funds?
Ottawa Hills voted for COSI by a margin of 2:1. What is going on here? Anyone have any political analysis? Why would those who would have to pay more (at least I suppose their property is more valued) want to pay taxes for COSI?
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 21, 2007 at 02:04:01 am #
Brainstorm, Jr? People who count on subsidies to support their business model never get to the intensity of a brainstorm. A light drizzle is about their speed.
Well, OSEB, I can only guess that fiscal Liberals and depraved yuppies live in those areas. They don't have to deal with reality in one way or another, so they Vote Stupid.
Other than Sylvania, which is becoming more and more infested with the "wrong" people ... all the outlying towns have captured the White flight out of Toledo. Ford called them "Whiter", and he's right. But other than alleged Whiteness, there is a strong element of people who have developed an allergy to paying taxes to Toledo entities. Hence, I only expect such places to turn down levies that really only benefit Toledo, or in COSI's case, Downtown Toledo (i.e. the Kremlin).
I have decided to rename our horrible newspaper to the Blockade. That newspaper and its Communist owners are the real barriers to Toledo's recovery. They can't even eke out a profit on their own newspaper! Why do we even listen to such disreputable and discredited people? What possible qualifications do they have for (1) having any opinion on regional economics, and (2) having never met a tax they didn't support?
The City of Sylvania is not all that surprising. I've never seen it as a bastion of free market ideas. Township yes, City no.
Ottawa Hills is interesting though. I have two theories:
1. Business people who normally understand the free market but who have bought into the idea that government is ok if it is for "economic development".
2. Academic liberals. I know that Ottawa Hills is known for big houses and wealth, but there are plenty of smaller properties there too and I have always assumed that they were infested with UT professors living in the vacuum of their tenures.
>>People who count on subsidies to support their business model never get to the intensity of a brainstorm. A light drizzle is about their speed.>>
GZ, exactly - you nailed it.
That is exactly why government can't work for economic development. Any group of pepole funded by the government - no matter what their mission - will only be capable of performing at a level that is pennies on the dollar compared to their free market peers.
OSEB - last I checked Ottawa Hills had more registered Dems than Reps ... but that was a while ago. However, the City of Sylvania is historically the opposite composition.
Some general speculation was, considering some of the other outcomes of different levies, that these individuals can afford the levy cost, so they don't mind voting for it. These areas do represent greater household incomes than many of the other communities in the county.
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 21, 2007 at 11:56:24 am #
GuestZero sez, "I have decided to rename our horrible newspaper to the Blockade." That's funny! The Pittsburgh newspaper calls it the Block Bugler.
"On Thursday night, prior to the conference's annual giant cocktail party, Mr. Rohr lashed back in comments to his public relations subsidiary, The Toledo, Ohio, Block Bugler." http://www.voteforbusiness.com/portal/pa_chamber/article_detail.aspx?id=I1527906616
"The Toledo, Ohio, Block Bugler (aka, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) pimped for the tax hike in an unprecedented and simply wacky front-page editorial."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/mcnickle/s_534995.html
Billy --
I said I've taken my kids there exactly once.
I used to teach a class and took students there about once a year. As the years went on, the exhibits became more and more shopworn. It was hard to find staff to answer questions.
As I said, I felt there was poor management, and I voted with my pocketbook before I ever cast a ballot.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is OWNED by J.R. Block. That's where the swine lives now-even though he still has to control Lucas County.
What about the idea of a private donation pledge drive of $5 or more to keep COSI open, so some tough issues can be considered in 2008? Maybe one of the secure Web transaction services could be used to collect donations. Donations could also be mailed in. The private donation idea would be broadcast throughout the region. This should not be a Lucas County-only thing.
If enough private money is raised to keep COSI open, then the tough talk for COSI in 2008 would be about things like :
- Replacing the current COSI management.
- Creating a new business or strategic plan that hopefully gets more involvement from area companies, schools, and universities.
- No levy on the ballot.
- Determine if the current COSI building can be made energy efficient to save money in the long run.
- Determine if the hands-on science museum should moved to another location in Toledo or elsewhere in the area.
- Toledo has vacant Food Town and Giant Eagle buildings. Obviously, the cost of acquiring land or a building elsewhere along with renovation costs will be huge factors. But if a new business plan gets created that brings in more support from regional businesses, such a move may be possible.
Set up a partnership with the Ann Arbor Hands On Museum. Along with offering separate memberships at both museums, the two museums could work together to offer a dual membership option that saves the user some money.
One thing I noticed in my research was that all seven of Ottawa Hills precincts (is that the correct term) voted for the COSI levy. In most cases they voted 2:1, and Ottawa Hills 7 voted 188 FOR and 65 AGAINST, almost 3:1 for.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 21, 2007 at 08:41:50 pm #
Something else I'm finding is that people who are voting aren't voting on all the levies, and other things. This is a strange quirk unless they aren't sure of an issue. I've done that before. So far I've found about 304 people who didn't vote either way on COSI in Jerusalem, Maumee, Monclova, and Oregon. If these people had voted for the levy it might have come closer to passing (I'll have to look at all the precincts), or if they had voted against the levy it wouldn't have been as close.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 22, 2007 at 01:36:44 am #
jr - my friends belong to the Ann Arbor Hands On Museum - pretty sure they already have reciprocal memberships. It's not a dual membership, but showing the AA membership card gets them into COSI for free...
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 23, 2007 at 08:00:11 am #
There will be an attempt made to collect $5.- per family to Save Private COSI. The entire Lake Erie West Region will be canvassed beginning Dec. 1st. We are still working out the details of how to collect the money. Stay tunned.
The best number I have been able to come up with for heating and cooling the Portside Building (COSI), is $300,000.- per year. If that number is valid, maybe now we know why Portside failed as a retail establishment.
If we do SAVE PRIVATE COSI, Jr's idea of moving to empty buildings is a good one. What about the abandoned Cinema complexes? There's one on Secor, and another on Monroe St. where Franklin Park Cinemas were housed.
WOW! What part of "the voters said no" do they not understand? If they want COSI on the ballot, then let's put Erie Street Money Pit, sorry I meant Market, on the ballot too. That way we can vote down two duds for the price of one trip to the polls.
posted by RobRob on Nov 19, 2007 at 06:34:22 pm #