Toledo Talk

Gas hits $3.99 on the west side

Everybody ready to see the price start with a "4" in the very near future?

Over/Under on number of posts until somebody blames Obama: 3.5.

created by JohnnyMac on Apr 25, 2011 at 01:05:51 pm     Business     Comments: 37

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so why don't you just move this over to politics straight up?

posted by toledolen_ on Apr 25, 2011 at 01:11:46 pm     #   2 people liked this

Looking on the non-political practicle side, oil companies are a business entity. I hate high oil prices as much as anyone but until such time as we become a nation that takes over the oil companies or sets maximum prices like in South America we must remember the loyalty of the oil companies is to their stock holders. Now, I expect to see (and hope for), a lot of back yard camping trips this summer. I own a Ford Expedition that is rated at about 40 feet per gallon down hill. My goal is to cut my driving in half this year. It can be done if we plan ahead.

And remember that all of our major recessions since the early '70's have occurred as a direct result of sharp increases in gasoline prices at the pump.

Well anyway, that's my slant on it.

posted by rch101 on Apr 25, 2011 at 01:45:10 pm     #  

Staying away from blaming the President--OK. How's this:

Our dollar is rapidly declining in value. The Fed actively pursues a "weak dollar" policy. Your paper dollar cannot buy nearly what it did even 2 years ago, let alone 10 or 15 years ago.

The response to the recession has been "quantitative easing", i.e. "print more money". Bad, bad bad. You the individual may make $30,000 a year, but now that $30,000 has been devalued because of QE and the weak dollar policy. How can oil possibly be $1.50-$2.00 a gallon after the instrument (the money) has been devalued so much?

This policy has been followed now by both Republican and Democrat presidents. It is destructive as hell.

I own a Ford Expedition that is rated at about 40 feet per gallon down hill.

Now that's funny!

posted by oldhometown on Apr 25, 2011 at 02:02:47 pm     #  

Well as of about 15 minutes ago, the Stop and Go on South and Broadway was $3.77 while the one at South and Thayer was $3.95. So if your in the area of South and Broadway, you may as well fill up.

posted by tm2 on Apr 25, 2011 at 02:55:46 pm     #  

Oil will not be getting cheaper in the decades to come. Oil production has or will soon peak while demand will continue to grow. It's a physical reality. Politics can not change that.

posted by hank on Apr 25, 2011 at 03:06:53 pm     #   1 person liked this

it's $3.999 at the BP at Suder and Ottawa River Road...so it appears to be a 'growing' trend across the area.

posted by MaggieThurber on Apr 25, 2011 at 03:15:40 pm     #  

I saw gas at over $4 a MONTH ago in chicago. In Washington DC Gas is around $5 arm.

Fuel is a non renewable resource. As the demand grows, the supply drops....supply and demand. It is only going to get worse. Get rid of your gas chucking SUVs and Sports Cars.

posted by OhioKimono on Apr 25, 2011 at 04:35:42 pm     #   1 person liked this

chucking = chugging...gah

posted by OhioKimono on Apr 25, 2011 at 04:36:04 pm     #  

Fear of loss of supply is driving price, as investors "speculators" to use the buzz word, prepare for the potential interruption that could result from mid-east turmoil, Japan energy shortage, and restriction of US based development (see today's headlines).

The domestic, continental, and international supply is not a problem, and won't be for more than 100 years; its the political restriction of exploration and production of existing reserves which causes the competition for crude.

Energy companies don't set the price. The only way to counter the increase caused by mid-east turmoil and the weak dollar is to signal to the market that US restrictions on domestic supply are lifted and energy companies are going to have the opportunity to extract oil from existing and known deposits.

TAHL

posted by CynicalCounsel on Apr 25, 2011 at 07:58:30 pm     #   1 person liked this

"The domestic, continental, and international supply is not a problem, and won't be for more than 100 years"

Based on what?

posted by hank on Apr 25, 2011 at 09:10:21 pm     #  

I knew since winter that economists were predicting $5 per gallon gas this summer. I didn't believe it, but now I do. I don't know how the economy can sustain this.

posted by renegade on Apr 25, 2011 at 11:19:38 pm     #  

I don't think anyone on here can honestly say why oil is going up. It always seems to be such a mystery. Hurricanes, Iraq War, Afghanistan, now Libya. I just read on the internet about how we inport most of our oil from Canada. It's a complete mystery that those in power do not want us to know about.
Last year or so when gas got this high, it was all I heard about on the news and radio. Now, it seems like a small story.
Personally, I can't wait until gas hits $8-$10 a gallon and people really start cutting back. Walking, riding bikes, car pooling, etc. Until then, everyone is so about themselves and their own self importance that we can't even get together on a "don't buy gas day" to send a message.
Just imagine that if for one single day we absolutely bought no gas for our personal vehicles.
Hey, I'd get into building those bicycle taxis with the one front seat driver and 2 seater in back if there was enough interest in using them.

posted by hockeyfan on Apr 26, 2011 at 05:29:03 am     #   1 person liked this

The don't buy gas days don't work because the whole premise is stupid. No one is actually using any less gas.

Say we all agree not to buy gas on Thursday. What good does it do if we all fill up on Wednesday?

posted by mom2 on Apr 26, 2011 at 07:46:49 am     #  

The oil companies have a profit level they maintain, regardless of demand or supply. For many items there is a certain "price point", the point at which consumers will do without the item because they wont pay for it. There is no price point for gas. We have to buy and use gas. If we conserve and drive less to lessen the sting, the oil companies raise prices to compensate. The individual can't win this battle, nor can small group actions. Alternatives are the answer and we all know how that's working out.

Cue arguments against spending tax money to build fast, efficient mass transit. My summer internship job is in the Franklin Park/Westfield Mall area. I live in the Holland area. What I wouldn't give to be able to get a bus to work most days and save the car for shopping trips etc. Please, please don't tell me to bicycle. The extra time it would take would cause me leave before daylight and have you noticed the rain lately?

posted by holland on Apr 26, 2011 at 08:18:03 am     #  

The price of oil has a lot more to with the value of the dollar, commodity speculation and profit taking from the oil companies than it does with supply and demand. Giving subsidies and tax breaks to oil companies hasn’t giving us cheap oil…time to move on.

posted by SensorG on Apr 26, 2011 at 08:18:10 am     #  

hockeyfan, there's a couple guys in the OWE and downtown that have pedicabs. Fun stuff!

posted by toledolen_ on Apr 26, 2011 at 12:46:21 pm     #  

When I lived in a warmer climate, I had a 49cc moped that I rode to work and to do daily errands--mainly through the backstreets to avoid any major traffic. Could go 40 mph and got around 100mpg.

Oh--no vehicle insurance was necessary (although my medical insurance was damn good!) and the only licensing requirement was a one-time bicycle license tag. I think it was $15.00 for the tag.

Not practical for a family of 6, but $4.00 per gallon gas makes me nostalgic for the 0.5 gallon "fill ups" that would power my travels for 4 days...

posted by oldhometown on Apr 26, 2011 at 12:56:42 pm     #  

Of course in reality, under Obama, domestic oil production is at its highest level in a decade…

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8698ae80-4503-11e0-80e7-00144feab49a.html#axzz1KdQHtvvU

US oil production last year rose to its highest level in almost a decade, thanks to an increase in the use of “unconventional” extraction techniques .

As a result, analysts believe the US was the largest contributor to the increase in global oil supplies last year over 2009, and is on track to increase domestic production by 25 per cent by the second half of the decade.

Of course we’re constantly told that if we would only increase domestic production the price of gas will drop…drill baby drill and all that.

Because of all this increase in domestic production the Dubai company Halliburton had an awesome quarter.
http://ir.halliburton.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=67605&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1551221
_Halliburton's consolidated revenue in the first quarter of 2011 was $5.3 billion, compared to $3.8 billion in the first quarter of 2010. Consolidated operating income was $814 million in the first quarter of 2011, compared to $449 million in the first quarter of 2010. These increases were attributable to increased activity in United States land, as the unabated shift to unconventional oil and liquids-rich basins more than offset geopolitical issues in North Africa and the ongoing effects of the suspension of deepwater activity in the Gulf of Mexico. _

Emphasis mine…

posted by SensorG on Apr 26, 2011 at 01:41:33 pm     #  

"The US government’s Energy Information Administration has forecast that US crude oil production will drop by an average of 30,000 barrels a day this year, and a further 120,000 b/d next year, largely because of a decline in the Gulf of Mexico." FT.com, 4/20/11.

"He believes that by 2014, production in the gulf could be back to 2009 levels."

The Trans Alaska pipeline is running at less than 40% capacity and is at risk of shut down if production levels from the north slope do not increase. However, the EPA ruled this week that permits for Beaufort sea drilling near Kaktovik, Alaska were denied because of the potential "air quality" effects on the 250 person village.

Finally - scream HALLIBURTON and imply obscene profit. The profit margin for oil companies is roughly 8%, so they make $1.08 on every dollar they spend. Nothing in SensorG's post says anything about profit, just quotes large number "consolidated revenue" and "operating income." And why begrudge profit, many if not most of our pension plans, 401K, and jobs are linked to oil investment income. They lose, we lose.

TAHL

posted by CynicalCounsel on Apr 26, 2011 at 05:11:20 pm     #  

The issue is that we are running out of oil. We are using "unconventional extraction techniques" because the easy clean oil is used up. We have to drill further offshore, invent new techniques and extract lower quality oil (canadian tar sands). All of these things cost more money and use more energy to get to a final product. That of course means higher prices.

Additionally, we are producing less. Production in the United States saw it's high water mark in 1971. That's not because of environmental policies; We just don't have the oil anymore. When you use something up, it's gone.

But we're always finding more oil right? Brazil recently made headlines for finding the largest new oil reserve in 30 years at 8 billion barrels. It sounds like a lot but at current consumption, that equals just 3 months of oil. A three month supply of oil is the largest found in 30 years!

Now while most nations oil production is already over the hill, what about Saudi Arabia with the worldest largest reserves? It's not looking good there either. According to U.S. diplomatic cables released by wikileaks, the Saudis are incapable of producing enough oil to keep prices stable and may have overstated their reserves but as much as 40%.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/08/saudi-oil-reserves-overstated-wikileaks

What about ANWR, we can drill there right if we can shut up the tree-huggers. Of course and someday we will, but ANWR has only 10 Billion Barrels or a little less than 4 months worth of oil.

The fact is that oil is running out and finger pointing is not going to solve the problem. If we want someone to blame, we should start with ourselves for our Suburban SUV lifestyles we have continued to live since rejecting the Carter Administrations call to pursue conservation and renew-ables over 30 years ago.

posted by hank on Apr 26, 2011 at 07:55:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

$4.15 now at many stations.

When the fed prints trillions to pay for wars, welfare, pensions, bailouts for corporations and unions, prices going through the roof should be expected.

The bright side is driving on the roads should be easier and quieter.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:23:21 pm     #   1 person liked this

"bailouts for corporations and unions"

How do you figure the fed gave a bailout to unions?

posted by tm2 on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:30:49 pm     #  

They bailed out GM, didn't they?

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:32:25 pm     #  

Gm is a corporation, not a union. They employ more than union workers.

posted by tm2 on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:34:18 pm     #  

If GM would have folded, what happens to their uaw employees? Do they continue working there and being paid anyway?

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:36:41 pm     #  

I've been paying over $4 a gallon for a few weeks now since I have to get higher grade gas.

Weakening (demolished?) dollar will lead to ever increasing gas prices.

posted by JJFad on Apr 28, 2011 at 12:52:23 pm     #  

If GM would have folded, what happens to their uaw employees?

The same thing that would have happened to their non-union employees, they would have gotten laid off.

posted by tm2 on Apr 28, 2011 at 01:30:23 pm     #  

So, they, the GM employees, both uaw and non-union were saved by the fed bailout.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2011 at 02:13:37 pm     #  

It is always fun watching someone give ground in a cross-examination.

posted by JohnnyMac on Apr 28, 2011 at 02:36:22 pm     #  

got gas today at ashland & bancroft. they are charging 4.59 a gallon for premium!!!!!!!

posted by upso on Apr 28, 2011 at 08:27:48 pm     #  

There will probably be a run on locking gas caps because the gas thieves will be out in full force.

posted by buckeye278 on Apr 28, 2011 at 09:18:10 pm     #  

Tonight, my husband said, "That's it. You're not allowed to drive anymore."

He was only half-joking.

posted by jmleong on Apr 29, 2011 at 12:36:21 am     #  

Filled up my tank tonight (Honda Accord) $64. Ouch, we're back to Katrina prices again.

posted by INeedCoffee on Apr 30, 2011 at 01:46:45 am     #  

I filled up for 3.94 at sams yesterday.

posted by mk123 on Apr 30, 2011 at 01:28:53 pm     #  

$59 fill up today. zoinks!

posted by upso on Apr 30, 2011 at 02:24:37 pm     #  

Only time before Americans are driving mopeds in crowded streets.

Gives me an excuse to buy a motorcycle without my wife's nagging that it's a "donor"cycle

posted by JJFad on Apr 30, 2011 at 05:01:11 pm     #   1 person liked this

i'm going to start riding my bike to work as soon as it gets consistently warm

posted by upso on Apr 30, 2011 at 06:34:13 pm     #